HEATHER HARGET AKA HEATHER WILLIAMS
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Q All right. Ms. Hargett, this is our third meeting in trying to get your deposition accomplished. I
understand, from our e-mail exchange yesterday, that you did not bring -- or were not intending to bring any
documents with you here today, is that correct?
A No, that's not correct. It was not my intention to not bring the documents. I am unable to produce
any documents, via I have no computer and I have no printer. It makes it very hard to come up with any documents.
Any hard copies I had of anything were given to Alecia Wolfskeil, which I've been -- not -- not recovered at this
time. I did send her an e-mail, which I forwarded to you, asking for these documents.
Q Okay. And you sent that e-mail to her about five o'clock yesterday, is that what I understand?
Q Why did you not make an effort to secure those documents before yesterday?
A There's an outstanding bill with Ms. Wolfskeil, and I'm assuming I haven't received the documents due
to that. I've asked for a breakdown of the bill multiple times and have not received that yet. Once I do that,
I will hopefully be able to recover those documents. I'm assuming. I have not spoken with her about this.
Q Okay. Have you tried to call her, other than the e-mail you sent yesterday, to secure the documents?
A I -- I spoke with Ms. Wolfskeil on multiple occasions.
Q And did she tell you that she was retaining those documents until the bill was paid?
Q Okay. And did -- why was she unable to provide those documents to you?
A Actually, I haven't heard back from her yet.
Q When did you first attempt to call her for those documents?
A I don't know what day.
Q What documents did you hand over to Ms. Wolfskeil?
A Anything and everything I had regarding Marc Buck, Flemmingh and Silco. When I first consulted her to
place a lien against the horses, when Mr. Buck was unable to pay his bill, I took all of the necessary documents
Q Now, Ms. Wolfskeil hasn't been involved in this case for well over six weeks, isn't that correct?
A That is correct.
Q And in that time frame, you have not secured your documents back?
A No, I have not.
Q Now, I understand, from speaking to Jose Ortiz, your second attorney, that he --
A I never hired Mr. Ortiz. That's incorrect information.
Q Okay. Mr. Ortiz came into this case and was working with you in attempting to take the case, is that correct?
A That's correct.
A I could not afford the bill and never hired Mr. Ortiz.
Q Okay. But in doing so, and in meeting with Mr. Ortiz, you provided him particular documents, is that correct?
A I forwarded him all the e-mails you had sent me.
Q You didn't give him any of the documents that Ms. Wolfskeil had?
A I took nothing in hand.
Q Okay. So other than those e-mails, what else did you provide him?
A Ever -- all the documentation I provided to Mr. Ortiz was via e-mail.
Q Did you provide anything other than the e-mails that I -- that you and I were exchanging, or did you
have other documents that were --
A Anything that Alecia Wolfskeil exchanged with me as well was forwarded --
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: Ms. Hargett --
THE WITNESS: -- directly to him.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: I'm sorry to interrupt, but it's about interrupting.
THE WITNESS: Okay.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: If you can just wait until the question is finished --
THE WITNESS: Okay.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: -- it will make it so much easier for Kelly, our wonderful court reporter. Thank you.
Q Okay. Did you also provide other e-mails of things that were in your computer as it relates to these
A Anything that Alecia Wolfskeil had forwarded to me, via you, any interaction regarding Flemmingh or
Silco was forwarded to Mr. Ortiz.
Q Okay. And how about Mr. Gutierrez, what did you provide Mr. Gutierrez's law firm?
A Exactly the same thing. Nothing hard copy. Don't have anything hard copy. I can't provide something
I don't have.
Q Did you discuss with Ms. Wolfskeil, last week, that you had a court order, by a court, to have those
documents in my office by Friday at five o'clock? Did you tell her that?
A No, I did not.
Q You did not provide her that court order and tell her that those documents had to be here?
Q Why did you not do that?
A Because, honestly, I was still looking for the documents. I was unaware of where they were. The only
thing I can think of is that Ms. Wolfskeil still has them.
Q So Friday at five o'clock is the first time that you realized that Ms. Wolfskeil had those documents or
believed to have them?
A Yes. I -- I moved, in the process of all of this, and I have been scouring all of the paperwork I have.
And the only thing I can come up with is all the documentation that I took to her on -- in January, before I proceeded
to Europe, before the horses were taken off the premises, before the bill was unpaid, I left all those documents with
her, and they've not been returned.
Q Well, you said to me earlier that you took the documents to her because Mr. Buck hadn't paid and you wanted
to put a lien on the horses --
Q -- is that correct? Well, that was before the horses removed the property.
A Correct. That's what I just said. I took her all that paperwork before I went to Europe, before the horses
were removed from the property, when he couldn't pay his bill. Approximately January 9th.
Q So the first time that you called her to have those documents returned would have been after Friday at five
A I -- I used to speak to Ms. Wolfskeil multiple times every week. I have corresponded with her, trying to get
the bill resolved. Have not gotten it -- have not gotten an update on the bill. And no, I have not corresponded with
Q Okay. My question -- and I appreciate that, but my question to you was: As it relates to the documents of
this lawsuit, that you were supposed to bring Friday, by five o'clock, in my office, you told me that at that time
is when you first realized that she likely had the documents, is that correct?
A That is correct. That was what I've already stated.
Q So therefore, you didn't make any calls to get those documents returned to you prior to Friday?
Q Okay. And then the first time you made an actual official request for these documents would have been
yesterday, in an e-mail, around five o'clock?
Q Is Silco's original passport in part of those documents?
A I'm not sure. I don't know what all the paperwork she has. I cleared out those horses' files and
basically handed them to her. So chances are pretty likely that she has that.
Q The question is: But you don't have them, correct?
A I do not have any documentation. I do not have any documentation. Any documentation.
Q As far as the computer, you said you now do not have a computer?
A I have not had a computer.
Q I thought you told me in your second deposition that you had ordered a computer, it didn't come in?
A No. I said I was trying to order a computer. I've not been financially secure, which I'm pretty sure
you guys are all well aware of; that I cannot afford to do things like that.
Q Okay. Do you still have Shoshana Gordon's laptop?
A No, I do not.
Q When --
A It's broken.
Q When did you return it to her?
A I don't believe it was ever returned to her. It was broken. The screen doesn't work. The door doesn't
close. It is broken. I've already stated that. That's already in the deposition.
Q Where is that laptop?
A I don't know.
Q So this is a laptop that she gave to you to use, and you don't know -- currently know where it is?
A No. It was broken.
Q I understand --
A Again, it was broken. It was broken as of December.
Q Okay. I understand that, Ms. Hargett. My question to you is: Where is the -- did you --
A I do not know.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: Wait.
THE WITNESS: I've already said this.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: But please try to wait until she finishes the question. It will make this entire
flow much easier.
Q Did you throw the computer away? Did you discard the computer in any way?
A No. It is probably in a box somewhere. I do not know where the computer is.
A I don't know how much more plain to be than that.
Q Prior to today's depo, have you made an effort to look for the laptop?
A Yes, I have. I've made an look -- effort to look for all of the paperwork you have asked me for.
Q Okay. Whose computer do you currently use?
A I either use the library's or I go to a friend's house.
Q And who -- what friend is that?
A None -- it -- it doesn't matter.
Q Well, ma'am, it does matter. You need to --
A Well, I'm not answer -- I'm not bringing every person that I know in my life into this. It's somebody
that is unrelated to the horses and has absolutely nothing to do with this case.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: All right. Let me go ahead, if I may, and explain to you the nature of depositions.
And that is: Questions such as this are to be answered. And if you're objecting, for whatever reason, because of
THE WITNESS: Yeah. Correct.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: -- I'm overruling the objection.
THE WITNESS: Well, I'm still not answering. Not -- I'm not -- I'm just not. I go to Office Depot and primarily
the library. Those are my primary uses of computer access.
Q I need to know what the name of the friend is. You have a court order to respond to those questions. So I'd
like to know who the friend is.
A I have no friends.
Q Okay. Well, now you're under oath and you're lying. You do realize that, correct?
A No. I -- basically, no, I have no friends.
Q Okay. You just told --
A You guys have pretty much guaranteed that I have no friends, so --
Q You just told me that you used a friend's computer.
A I used to use a friend's computer. I actually don't do that anymore. I go to Office Depot and I use the
Q What friend did you use of a computer?
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: And you are to answer the question --
THE WITNESS: I have --
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: -- if you know the name of the person.
THE WITNESS: I used to use Shoshana Gordon's computer.
Q Well, you told me in the last depo that you haven't used her computer since December of 2006. Who have you --
A That is correct.
Q You also told me in the last depo that you had a friend's computer you were using after December 2006.
So there's obviously another friend, and -- and I need to know who that other friend is.
A I have no other friends.
Q You realize that, under oath, if you're lying, the perjury -- there's a perjury sanction that comes along
with lying under oath. You realize that?
A I am not bringing anybody else into this.
Q I understand that you may not want to bring anyone else into this --
Q -- but you have a court order to answer that question. Are you refusing to answer the question?
A Yes, I'm refusing to answer the question.
Q Okay. What library do you use?
A The public library.
Q Which library?
A The public library. The only one I know of.
Q The name of it?
A I don't know. It's the public library in -- in Wellington.
Q Where is it located?
A On Forest Hill Boulevard.
Q What time are the hours?
A I don't know.
Q What's the latest you've been there to use the computer?
Q Which Office Depot computer do you use?
A The one at the front.
Q Okay. Where? What Office Depot?
A The one on 441.
Q In what town?
Q And what's the latest you've used that computer?
A Probably 5:30, six o'clock.
Q If you have been making e-mails to other people after 5:30 or six o'clock, whose e-mail -- or whose
computer are you using to do those e-mails?
A I typically don't do that.
Q Okay. I didn't ask you typically. When you do?
A I don't use other computers. I -- I've just stated, in the last 30 days, the only computers I've used
are Office Depot and the library.
Q I'm not asking for the last 30 days. I'm asking since December of 2006.
A I used to use Shoshana Gordon's computer.
Q Okay. And after Shoshana's computer broke --
A I went to --
Q Ms. Hargett, let me finish. After Shoshana Gordon's computer broke, in December of 2006, what computer
did you use thereafter --
A I used Shoshana's --
Q Let me finish.
A I used Shoshana Gordon's computer up until February sometime. I've already said that.
Q Okay. Let me finish.
A Move on, please, to another --
Q Let me finish.
A To some other type of question.
Q Okay. Let me finish, and then we'll move on. You told me in the last deposition that you had not used
Shoshana Gordon's computer since December of 2006, because it was broken.
A Not correct.
Q What is incorrect?
A That particular computer. She has about four.
Q Okay. Other than that computer, whose computer have you used?
A I have used Office Depot's computer. I have used the library's computer. And I used Shoshana Gordon's computer.
Q Okay. When is the last time --
A Any other way you'd like to ask that question, the answer is still the same.
Q When is the last time that you used Shoshana Gordon's computer?
A I do not know the exact date. She probably has a better idea of that. But sometime in February.
Q And you're telling me this is a computer that is in Shoshana's house?
Q Okay. And if Ms. Shoshana Gordon has told me that she's never allowed you to use any computer, other than
her laptop, then she would be lying?
A Other than her laptop?
A That's the only type of computer she has is a laptop.
Q Okay. Other than the laptop that you never returned to her, would she be lying?
A Yes, she would. Because I actually went and used the computer to print out some documents in February.
Q The -- you have the ability to download the documents onto a disk, is that correct?
A I don't know how to do that. I don't own any disks. And I don't know if you can do that at Office Depot
or the library.
Q But you've never asked anyone to help you in that regard, to download the documents to a disk so that you
can produce them?
A Nope. I don't know how to do that, and I don't own any disks.
Q Okay. And yesterday I asked you to e-mail me any documents you'd like me to print here at my office. And
no e-mails came in. Why is that?
A I didn't get that e-mail from you. My last correspondence from -- for you was me stating that, again, I
have no computer and I have no way to produce documents that I don't have. That I've asked Ms. Wolfskeil for them.
And when I receive them, I will forward them to you.
A Did I respond to your last e-mail?
MS. NAVIN: Okay. Let me just take one break a second.
THE WITNESS: Did I respond to your last e-mail?
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: Just -- just so that you know, you're here to answer questions. You're not her to pose
questions. And so she's not responding to that.
MS. NAVIN: One second.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Do you want to go off?
MS. NAVIN: No. I just need to give this -- Marc, just give this to my receptionist. (Mr. Buck exited the deposition.)
Q So it's your position then that if -- any of the original documents you may have had, those documents are
in the possession of Alecia Wolfskeil and they have been in her position -- possession since January 9th?
A I believe so.
Q The -- you've obviously read the Wellington-WEF thread, correct?
A No, I have not.
Q You've not read it at all?
A No. I get forwarded clips from it every now and then, but I don't typically read that stuff.
Q There was a person on the Wellington Web site that listed herself as "Innocent Bystander." Do you know who
that person is?
A No, I do not.
Q Okay. So a person who said on the Wellington-WEF site, "She has not had two attorneys walk away. She
hired the first attorney on Friday, my suggestion." This would have been talking about Mr. Gutierrez. Did you talk
to somebody about hiring or someone suggested that you hire Mr. Gutierrez?
A I was -- I was advised to try to hire counsel.
Q And who told you that?
A A friend.
Q And what is that friend's name?
A Amy Lefferdink.
Q And how do you spell Amy's last name?
Q Okay. And where does Amy reside?
A I don't know.
Q Is she in Wellington?
A I do not know.
Q How is she your friend?
A I know her from the horses.
Q Does she have a barn in Wellington?
A I do not believe so.
Q Does she have a barn anywhere in Florida?
A I do not believe so.
Q Is she from out of state?
A I do not know.
Q Okay. Did you ever sit down and show her a bunch of documents to look at?
A I haven't seen Amy in at least six months. I talk to her on the phone frequently.
Q Did you ever forward her any documents on the computer?
A No, I do not. I don't know Amy's e-mail address.
Q This person, Innocent Bystander, is saying on the Web page that you -- she has seen all of your documents,
all of your barn leases, all of the -- the bills of Marc Buck. Who would that person be that you have sat down and
shown documents to?
A The only person I know of that has seen pretty much all that stuff would be Shoshana Gordon.
Q Is there anyone else that has seen the payments that you've made to Peter Erdos?
A No. Nobody should have seen that. Not even Shoshana.
Q Okay. This person, Innocent Bystander, says, "The information I provided -- provided are things I have seen
with my own eyes. These are not opinions. These are facts that could be substantiated for the paperwork. For example,
the amount of money owed to Alex Gerding. Each payment was done via wire transfer. There's a whole file outlining this.
As far as Mr. Gerding is concerned, I'm sure he doesn't like it, but Heather has been nothing about forthright with him."
Who -- who is the person who has seen this paperwork?
A I have no idea. You're going to have to ask who Innocent Bystander is.
Q You have not sat down with anyone and showed those bills?
A Shoshana Gordon knows pretty much most of what has gone on in my life.
Q Okay. Other than Shoshana Gordon?
A No. Not for at least two years.
Q And this person is saying that they have actually read and reviewed the spreadsheets you provided to Marc, and
also the bills. Is there anyone other than Shoshana that you've shared that with?
A I've sent that paperwork to all sorts of people.
Q All right. Well, tell me who you've sent it to.
A Investors, other people online, people wanting to review it. Multiple people. I would have no way of coming
up with a list.
Q You've sent the bills that Marc Buck has for Flemmingh and Silco?
A No. You said spreadsheets.
Q Okay. Let me make sure -- let me go back a second, make sure I'm clear with that. The bills of Marc Buck
for Flemmingh and Silco, other than Alecia Wolfskeil, and you've told me Shoshana, is there anyone else that you've
sat down and showed those bills to or e-mailed them to anyone to look at?
A No. No. I don't display my whole life on the Internet.
Q I understand. I'm asking you for information of somebody who apparently believes they've seen these documents.
A Other than Shoshana Gordon, I don't know anybody that has seen those documents. And she would have seen them
because they were on her computer.
Q Okay. This person says, "I know all of this because I was asked for advice regarding these matters. And once
we started to delve into it, I began to help clean up and organize some of the finances. I -- it was amazing to me how
many things she paid for of other peoples' horses. I've spent hundreds of hours going over all of this and steering her
in the right direction and helping her find appropriate legal counsel. Maybe this will all -- will end all of it once
and for all. That is the main goal at hand. Many of you will be receiving phone calls from her attorney." Who is that
A I don't know. I don't get on the Wellington-WEF. I've already said -- stated that.
Q I understand.
A I don't know who this person is.
Q You've not set -- spent hundreds of hours with somebody delving through --
A Absolutely not.
Q Did you see the link by Shoshana Gordon's mother?
A I did not read the Wellington-WEF.
Q You told me --
A Would you like me to state that again?
Q You told me that --
A For the record, I did not read the Wellington-WEF.
Q Okay. You told me that people would send you snippets of the threat, is that correct?
A That is correct.
Q Okay. And did you see any snippets as it relates to Shoshana Gordon's mother's posts?
Q Okay. So if Shoshana's mother states that you have cost her a lot of money, heartaches and headaches, and
that you owe them money for a horse show in Pennsylvania, would that be correct?
A I do not know if that's correct.
Q Do you owe money -- did you have a situation where your credit card wouldn't work in Pennsylvania and
the balance for your hotel room was placed onto Shoshana's card and not been paid?
A Quite likely. But I have paid Shoshana Gordon some money over the last couple of years. I don't know
if that is still outstanding. It quite possibly could be.
Q How about your last trip to Europe? I understand that you had a certain portion of the responsibility to
pay for that trip and that you didn't show up with any money and Shoshana had to pay the bills, is that correct?
A There was never any intentions of me paying any bills going to Europe. The trip was not for me. Shoshana
is well aware that I don't have any money and would not have taken me if she expected me to pay for the trip.
Q The -- Shoshana's mother also says that you were charged stall rent, and all of those checks bounced --
A That is incorrect.
Q -- is that correct?
A That is incorrect. I can produce some bank -- bank statements where the checks did not all bounce.
Q Okay. Well --
A The only time -- the only time a check bounced was when Mr. Buck bounced a check to me, which then, in turn,
bounced a check to Shoshana.
Q So that was one check. You --
A Correct. For the stalls.
Q Okay. And you --
A For the stalls.
Q Okay. And you've honored that check?
A I don't know. I've got a bill -- I've got a running tab with Shoshana. Shoshana has helped me out immensely
over the last two years.
Q What do you currently owe Shoshana?
A I have no idea.
Q So you feel that it's a running tab and that's acceptable that the money is still owed?
A I didn't say it was acceptable. Didn't say that at all.
Q Okay. What efforts have you made to pay Shoshana?
A Shoshana is well aware of my financial situation, and she is, I think, well aware that, if and when I get
some money, I will pay Shoshana back. I can't pay somebody something I don't have.
Q When did you last speak to Shoshana Gordon?
A In the last 30 days. Probably in the last two and a half weeks.
Q And did you call her, or did she call you?
A She e-mailed me.
Q Okay. So if -- if Shoshana Gordon says that she hasn't had any communication with you in 30 days, then
she'd be lying?
A Yes. And I can produce the e-mails to prove it.
Q Well, you can't produce any e-mails, because you can't have a printer, right? Is that what I understand?
A I will figure out how, one way or the other. I can probably forward you one little simple e-mail. As I
recall, the Court asked for me not to e-mail you those documents. They asked for me to have them in hard copy in
your office, which is something I've not been able to produce.
Q Did you make any effort to tell the Court, through correspondence or otherwise, that you were unable to
bring those documents?
A No. I'm unable to drive back and forth to Fort Lauderdale on a daily basis. It's $90 to fill up my
truck, and I don't have a lot of money right now, obviously.
Q Okay. Did you make any effort -- I understand your uncle lives in Pompano, is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q And he's the city manager in Pompano?
Q Did you make any effort to call your uncle and ask him if you could come down and use his computer and
printer to print the documents?
A No, I haven't. I haven't spoken with my uncle in six months to a year. We're not close.
Q He is somebody that invested, in the past, with horses with you, is that correct?
A Yes. That's already been stated on the record.
Q And he didn't have a -- a return on his investment, did he?
A Actually, Jerry Stevenson paid him. I don't know what his return was. I was not involved in the deal.
Q You did not obtain a return on his investment for him, is that correct?
A No. The horses were taken out of my hands. They were given back to Mr. Stevenson, and my uncle opted
not to fight that. At his recommendation, I sent the horse back.
Q My --
A He said he did not care; that family was more important than money.
Q And I understand that. My question was: You did not obtain a return of investment for your uncle as far as his
investment is concerned?
A The horse never got sold, no. The horse has still not been sold.
Q And you haven't talked to him for six months to a year?
Q Why not?
A Just -- we're not that close.
Q You don't have any other individuals in Wellington that you can go over to their computer and use their
printer to print out documents?
A I pretty much tried to separate myself from everybody and anybody. Because anybody that Marc Buck could
go after for money, he will. So I don't have any friends. I have no friends. I don't really talk to anybody.
I do my horses and that's it.
Q Where are your -- your horses currently stabled?
A In Wellington.
Q What barn?
A I'm not answering that. I -- I'm not answering that because I'm afraid that Mr. Buck, having already
removed a horse that I own part of, will go and remove these horses. Not relevant.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: Let -- let me go ahead and rule on that. And I'm overruling the objection.
THE WITNESS: That's fine.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS:Let me also explain to you the ramifications of your not answering. Because of the
fact that, obviously, that has already taken place in the two prior depositions, necessitating Judge Carney's
entering the order for my presence today to rule on these, you -- I just want to make sure, Ms. Hargett, that
you understand that the judge has the ability to sanction you further for not complying with his order. And --
THE WITNESS: That's fine.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: And that could include striking of your pleadings.
THE WITNESS: That's fine.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: The judge has available to him the full panoply of sanctions. That's just so that
you understand. And what I'm going to ask you to do, if you don't mind, Kelly, is in each instance where a
question is now being refused, by the deponent, to be answered, if you can just mark where those are so we can
have that to direct the judge at the time. The judge will need to review this.
THE WITNESS: That's fine. I'm still not answering. I feel like it violates the safety of those horses.
I don't feel comfortable with that. I've not still been given the address and location of a horse that I own
part of, so --
Q You received a letter last week regarding the sale of Silco, correct?
A A letter? No.
Q You didn't receive a letter regarding the notification that Silco is on the market to be sold?
A No, I did not.
Q Okay. That's interesting. Because you responded to other issues in that letter. So now you're telling
me you didn't get it?
A A letter for Silco to be -- no. What -- what issues am I responding to that haven't been brought up in an e-mail?
Q Did you get a letter that was addressed to Mr. Gutierrez and Mr. Borgognoni, copied to you, as it relates
to the sale of Silco?
A No. The only thing that I've been approached with the sale of Silco is a $7,500 purchase and a bill wiped
out, which I've never agreed to. That's the only thing I've responded -- that I've gotten in regards to the sale of
A I've gotten a bill, where I was being asked to pay $200 to ship the horse 10 miles across town, which still
my bill far exceeds that. So, no, I've not responded to any letter.
Q Let me show you -- have you received this letter? Take a look at it.
A Yes. This is in regards to the bill, which I just mentioned.
A This does not say anything about Silco being on the market for sale. I've known he was on the market for
sale. You told me that. And I've not been approached with a sale price that I've agreed to, other than to buy out
my half of $7,500, for a horse that we paid $75,000 for. So, no.
Q For a horse that you testified in the deposition was worth no money, correct --
Q -- because of a check ligament?
A Excuse me?
Q For the same horse that you testified in deposition was worth no money because of a check ligament.
A As a jumping horse, he's not worth very much money, because of the check ligament. As a dressage horse,
it's a whole different ball game.
Q Okay. You received this bill for Silco in the amount of 5,295, and your portion being 2,647.50. And now
with April charges being $475, have you made any effort to make payment on this bill?
A Actually, I did. I credited Marc's bill that he owes me.
Q Okay. We'll go through those bills.
A Let me hand you a bill for August 11, 2006, and have you take a look at that. And tell me if that's the
invoice that you submitted to Mr. Buck --
Q Let me hand you a bill for August 11, 2006, and have you take a look at that. And tell me if that's the
invoice that you submitted to Mr. Buck --
A I'm assuming that it is. I would have to look at my own personal records to find that out, but I'm
assuming that it is.
Q Okay. Does this look like the type of bill that you would generate?
A Yes, it does.
Q Now, what is the -- I'm going to -- I -- I don't mean to hover over you here, but we have to kind of work
together here. The stall rental for August. You were boarding at Shoshana Gordon's farm, is that correct?
Q All right. And what was the stall rate, the dry stall rate for Shoshana Gordon's barn?
A For the stall, it's $500 a month. And then staff housing is on top of that.
Q Okay. You billed Mr. Buck 750 for stall rental, correct?
A No. This month I billed -- yes, 750. Correct.
Q All right. And where in that invoice do you say that Mr. Buck is paying for staff housing?
A That's just part of the stall rental. The little box on the bill is very small. I don't have really
room to write all of that. But that's all grouped in there.
Q Did you tell Mr. Buck that he was going to have to pay for your staff housing?
A No. But that's pretty much a given in the horse business. I've never been anywhere where I didn't
pay for all of the expenses incurred by the horses.
Q Okay. Now -- so you added $250 to Silco's bill in what you're now calling staff housing?
Q And --
A Not now calling staff housing. It's always been that way.
Q Okay. But Mr. Buck wouldn't have known that, because you never told him that. And this actually has
the word "stall" on it, correct?
Q All right.
A Mr. Buck would know what it costs to rent a stall and provide housing for his horses each month, given
the spreadsheet that outlined the expenses, which, mind you, I was under budget every month.
Q But under budget for a stall rental is a dry stall. That's what it says here, "stall."
Q You could have made another line that said "staff housing," and you chose not to do that.
A Where does it fit on here?
Q It's your bill, ma'am.
A It doesn't fit on there. It's just all grouped in together. That's just part of the rental for the month.
Q Okay. And you could have wrote it on, correct?
Q You could have written it on?
A I could have. But I didn't. I didn't choose to do my billing that way.
Q Okay. What did you --
A If you would like to take over my billing, Bonnie, have at it.
Q I wouldn't even dare. What would be -- what was the rate you were paying your grooms in the month of August?
A $600 a month for -- or $600 a week for Olivia and $80 a day for Tony.
Q When is the last time you talked to Olivia?
A This morning.
Q Is she back working with you?
A Yep, she is.
Q Okay. And do you have a contact number for her?
A Somewhere. In the phone at the barn.
Q And you're still paying her cash?
A Just depends. Cash or check.
Q You're still paying her the same rate?
Q The -- do you have any of the invoices that support the shoeing rate for Silco for this bill --
A I believe you --
Q -- for 300?
A I -- I believe that's been forwarded to Mr. Buck, but those are documents I'd have to retrieve, I think,
from Ms. Wolfskeil.
Q Okay. We've never seen those documents. Who -- who -- who shod the horse for this August -- September --
I'm sorry -- for this August bill?
A Either Jack Miller or Michael Brongers. And yes, you have seen it, because you spoke with Jack Miller.
Q No, I have not seen the bill for -- I've seen the bill for September 17th and October. I've never seen an
Q Let me make sure I understand your billing system. Are you billing this in advance, this August bill, and
it's saying that I -- I believe it's going to be 250, or is this bill numbers that have already been incurred?
A No. This is -- this was dated August 11th, and this was for Silco. And if you'll notice that Mr. Buck paid
for Silco on August 11th. So this is clearly postdated.
Q Meaning this is --
A This is what we expect to incur. I can't front the money -- I can't front all the money for these horses.
Q As it stands today, Mr. Buck has paid the August bill in total, correct?
Q And I think we established, during one of the last depositions that the prepurchase amount of $1,281 was
never a number paid for a prepurchase exam.
A Not exactly, no. It went to pay Flemmingh's bill at Palm Beach Equine.
Q Okay. My --
A It was credited to Mr. Buck's bill.
Q Okay. And I appreciate that. My question to you is: The $1,281, on the August bill, for the prepurchase
examination of Silco, was not actually a num- -- it was an amount received, but not for a prepurchase exam.
A It was -- as stated once already, it was a guesstimate, which Mr. Buck was aware of, because there's no way
I could know the day he paid for the horse what a bill was that I hadn't received. But he was aware that I could not
front all the money for this. So he was aware it was a guesstimate.
Q I understand. Let's try this again. I understand --
A I'm answering your question as best I -- as best possible.
Q Okay. I would like you to answer the question. The $1,281 that you estimated for a prepurchase exam for
August, is, in fact, not what occurred. There was no prepurchase exam for Silco.
A There was a prepurchase exam for Silco.
Q What prepurchase examination consisted for Silco?
A Dr. Barber viewed x-rays for Silco, and Dr. Griffith came and did an insurance exam.
Q Since our last deposition, have you reached Dr. Barber yet?
A I haven't tried.
Q Okay. If Dr. Barber tells us that he never spoke with you regarding any prepurchase examination or review
of x-rays of Silco and Flemmingh, then you're telling me that he's lying?
A Correct. I spoke with him about the x-rays of those two horses.
Q Okay. You called him from your cell phone?
A I don't know if it was from my cell phone.
Q Okay. You have a --
A I feel sure --
Q -- regular phone?
Q You have a regular phone you use?
A There was a regular phone at the barn.
Q Okay. So you would have made long distance calls from Shoshana's barn, is that what you're saying?
A On occasion, yes. I had -- I have a little calling card. That's how I call Europe.
Q And who is your calling card with? What company?
A It's a little -- it's a prepaid $10 Z-card or whatever. I get them pretty much weekly. At one point
I didn't have a cell phone, and at one point I dropped the cell phone in the water. So I don't know when the
phone call was made.
Q The $1,281 of the August bill did not apply to anything in -- in this August -- of this August charge, correct?
A At that time, I had not receive any bills.
Q Okay. I'm just trying to -- to equate where these numbers are going to go.
A This was paid, and Marc paid it the day he paid for the horse. He sent me a check immediately, because he
knew I was incurring expenses on the horses and knew I could not front that kind of money.
Q Okay. So at this point, at least as it stands for this bill, he is credited $1,281. And I understand you're
going to tell me later where that all applies. But at this moment in August, the $1,281, half of that, because that
would be his portion, is actually a credit at this point.
A The shoeing probably was a credit. The insurance was a credit, until it got paid.
Q Well, I understand. But we -- we know you paid the shoeing, correct?
Q And we know that you -- you paid the money for the insurance.
Q The money for the prepurchase did not go out, at least as of August.
Q Okay. And we know that the $250 is added on for housing.
Q Okay. Now, let's look at the September bill. I presume that if the stall rental is the same bill for 750,
then 500 went to Shoshana and 250 was for staff housing?
Q Okay. And did you make payments to Shoshana for the August and September stall rental for 500 and the staff
housing for 250?
A She didn't provide staff housing.
Q Okay. Where was your staff living in August and September?
A In -- at a house on -- in -- Periwinkle Circle, I think. I don't know the address. I didn't sign the lease.
Q And what was her monthly rate that she had to pay?
A $1,300 plus utilities.
Q And did anyone else live there with her?
A Whoever was working at the time.
Q Okay. So this was a house that was secured for your business for Olivia, or was this something that Olivia
did out on her own and then you compensated her back?
A She did this to work for me.
Q Okay. Okay. Now, at this point, the insurance you paid. And the shoes, you did pay or did not pay for
A I did pay.
Q Okay. And who shod the horse in September?
A I believe Jack Miller shod the horses in September and October.
Q Okay. And that would have -- okay.
A I think -- I'm pretty certain Michael Brongers shod Silco in August because he came with no shoes on.
And Michael Newman's farrier, Michael Brongers, I believe, came and assisted with that.
Q And he did that at your request, correct?
Q October, you were still at Shoshana's barn?
Q Okay. And let me make sure I understand, for this particular bill for Silco, that the stall rental is
still the same, 500, and then 250?
Q All right. And the shoes were 285, correct?
Q All right. And that was paid?
Q And the insurance was paid?
Q And the depo shots were paid?
Q All right. So there was no money that Mr. Buck owed you for the month of October?
Q Okay. Now, where were you stabled in the month -- month of September?
A Shoshana --
Q I'm sorry. The month of October?
A Shoshana Gordon's.
Q And how about for the month of November?
A Some of the horses were at Shoshana Gordon's and some of them were over on 50th Street at Tuerk Stables.
Q Was Flemmingh and Silco at Tuerk Stables?
A Not in November.
Q Okay. So that they stayed in November at Shoshana's?
Q Until how long?
A I don't know the exact date that I moved them. Sometime in December they moved to Tuerk Stables.
Q What was your rate that you owed at Tuerk Stables for -- for stall rental?
A 750 per stall, plus housing.
Q Well --
A First and last month up front and a deposit.
Q And so we're here still at Shoshana's, then, for November?
Q Okay. Let me make sure we got this right. Okay. And that's again 500 and 250, correct?
Q Why did you put here that the stall rental rate was 1,500?
A Because the -- because it goes up. Staff housing goes up. I started having to provide housing for
myself, which I -- the only reason I'm here in Wellington is for those horses to get sold. So the rate went up.
Q Did you ever tell Mr. Buck or sit down with him or any of your investors and say, I want you to understand,
when you get into a horse deal with me, you're going to be paying my housing and my staff housing?
A It was never asked. If it had been asked, it would have been told.
Q Don't you think that's something that an investor would want to know, where all of their pennies are being spent?
A If it had been asked, again, it would have been told. It was provided to Mr. Buck before he purchased the
horses that in November the stall rate and the housing and everything would go up to $1,500, because it's very expensive
to rent here during season. You have to pay for things up front. You can't pay by the month. And I didn't even ask
him to do that. I didn't ask him to provide the whole stall fee for six months, which most people do.
Q Okay. But you would agree, Mr. Buck didn't know anything about the horse business, correct?
Q And you didn't make any effort to sit him down and say, I want you to understand, on top of what you're
going to pay for this horse, you're now going to pay for my housing and my staff housing.
A You're incorrect.
Q Okay. Tell me about that.
A I sat Mr. Buck down and talked to him for a good half hour to an hour and told him the horses are very
expensive, that bad things can happen, that they get hurt. I told him of a horse that I had that died. I told him
of a horse that I had that had surgery. And I said, but if you can -- you know, those are the -- the downsides.
The upsides are it is a very profitable business, if you can ride it out.
Q Okay. But --
A It's like real estate.
Q So -- I'm sorry. I don't think you heard my question. My -- because that -- that was not reflective at
all to the question I asked. The question I asked you was: Did you ever sit down with Marc Buck and tell him
specifically that when you invest in a horse with me, you're going to be paying, at some point, for my housing and
my staff housing?
A Those questions were not asked of me. And no, I had outlined part of the expenses for the horses, and I
didn't elaborate any further than the expenses for the horses. And again, I was always under budget.
Q Okay. Well, it wouldn't --
Q It wouldn't be under budget to Mr. Buck, who doesn't know that you're going to -- he's going to be paying
overage on what you're paying for stall rent, correct?
A He didn't pay overage on what I was paying for stall rent. I barely was breaking even. I was probably
paying to help him have his horses there. I didn't split it up over three horses. I split it up over six and paid
my fair share, just like everybody else.
Q And you think it's standard in the industry that Mr. Buck should be -- or any of your investors should be
responsible to pay for your housing or for your staff housing?
A For Wellington, yes. During season, absolutely. Because the -- the rate is so much higher. The only
reason I'm here is for those horses to get sold. If I lived in Oklahoma, I could probably stay somewhere for $400
a month. That's not the case, and this horse isn't going to get sold in Oklahoma.
Q Where in your business plan does it say anything about the fact that Mr. Buck is -- or any of your investors
are going to pay for your housing or your staff housing?
A It doesn't.
Q And why not? Why didn't you add that in there?
A I had somebody else help me write that. They probably were unsavvy about the horse business as well.
A It's a model. You type in your information and it, you know, produces a business plan.
Q When you --
A It's a guideline. It is not set in stone.
Q When you rode with Harold Chopping as a client, you're telling me you paid for Harold Chopping's housing?
Q Okay. You have --
Q You have bills to reflect paying for his house?
A I would -- for his camper at the horse shows and hotels, absolutely. And I guarantee you, when he comes
down here and rents an apartment, where he rented right up the road from me, I would -- I would bet my life that his
-- that his customers paid for his housing.
Q Okay. And that would be because he is normally housed out of North Carolina, correct?
A It's no different. I had to -- I -- I was normally housed at Shoshana Gordon's. I had to then go rent a
place, for season. It's no -- how is that different?
Q Well, you wouldn't have had to do that if the horses sold within the first 90 days, like you had envisioned,
A Envisioned, but not promised, correct. Had -- had I had a crystal ball and seen that the horse was going to
hurt its foot, a lot of things would have been different, Bonnie.
Q And what did about Silco?
A What about Silco?
Q Why didn't he sell in the first 90 days?
A He didn't pass the vet.
Q Okay. What vet was the vet who did the vetting on Silco?
A I don't know. I wasn't present. I've already stated that.
Q And who was the person who -- who was the agent or trainer for that vetting?
A Jennifer Bieling handled most of the sales for those horses.
Q Okay. And if Jennifer Bieling tells us that she never knew or asked or ordered any type of vetting on Silco,
then she would be lying to us, correct?
A Jennifer Bieling is the one that had me have -- have Dr. Kim Snyder look at the horse. So yes, that would be
Q So you're telling me --
A Jennifer Bieling is the one that brought Dr. Kim Snyder into the whole picture. I didn't know who Kim Snyder
was before I met Jennifer Bieling.
Q You're telling me that at some point Silco was taken over to the horse show for a vetting. Remember that
discussion we had in your last depo?
A Yes. Of course I remember that.
Q And then you came back, in your second depo, and said that you were wrong, that Silco, in fact, had not gone
over for a vetting. So which one is -- I'm just trying to understand which one is accurate. Did he go to the horse
show for a vetting?
A I was not there. Again, stated for the third time now. I was not there. I came home and was told that the
horse needed to be viewed by the vet; that his check ligament was inflamed and a vet needed to ultrasound it. Because
we did not feel comfortable selling that horse if there was a problem.
Q And my question to you is: How did that come about --
A Jennifer Bieling told me I needed to have a vet look at that horse's leg.
Q You didn't let me finish. How did it come about that Jennifer Bieling learned of this problem?
A Probably because we were working with the horse on a daily basis and it's leg continued to get bigger by
Q But what is -- you were telling me that the horse went and got vetted, and then the problem arose in the
vetting, and then Jennifer Bieling told you to have a vet look at it. Where am I wrong in this chain of events here?
A I was not here. I did what Jennifer told me to do. She asked me to have the vet look at it. I had the vet
come and ultrasound the horse.
Q But you told me before that it came about because some vet was starting to do a vetting and found this problem.
Is that incorrect?
A No. That's what I was told. I was not there.
Q So you --
A How much more clear do I need to be about --
Q So --
A -- that, Bonnie?
Q So you allowed --
Q -- somebody to come to your farm and take --
A I told you, the horse did not -- they did not come to the farm. If you're going to ask questions, at least
go back to what has already been stated, under oath, that I said. Don't put words in my mouth, please. I told you
that I was not there. I told you that a groom took the horse across the street to the horse show. I told you that
later found out that nothing happened. I was told to have the horse viewed by our vet, which I did. The vet deemed
that the ultrasound of the check ligament was "garbage," was her terminology. That its check ligament ultrasounded
like garbage, and that I needed to do something to get rid of that horse and that I should not sell that horse as a
jumping horse, that it's a liability.
Q My question is: How did you come to learn that a groom walked Silco across the street to the horse show for
A That's what they told me.
Q Okay. Who gave permission for a groom to walk Silco across the street for a vetting?
A Gave permission? What are you talking about? Gave permission? When I'm not around, Olivia is in charge.
She has -- she is a very good horse person and is at liberty to take care of those horses, call the vet, see as she
-- do as she sees fit. There's nobody that gave permission.
Q Did you know that your groom --
A They're not under lock and key.
Q Did you know that your groom was going to walk Silco across the street --
Q -- for a vetting?
Q Okay. And when did you learn that?
A Before -- obviously, prior to that happening.
A I don't know what day.
Q And who was the person who was looking at the horse to buy it, that -- let me finish, please -- that said,
I need this horse to walk across the street for a vetting? Who was the person that was going to be buying this horse
that initiated all of this walking across the street for a vetting?
A I was not there.
Q Okay. So somebody picked -- so let me see if I understand this. You -- you got a phone call or you talked
to somebody and you learned that at some point in the future a groom needs to walk Silco across the street to the horse
show. Is that what I understand?
A Jennifer Bieling orchestrated the sales of these horses.
A Jennifer Bieling asked me to have that horse looked at because she did not feel he was going to get through
Q Okay. We're still not understanding how it is --
A I don't know how to be more clear, Bonnie. I've given you all the information I have.
A If you want to continue to ask and go around in circles, that's fine, but that is -- that's all the
information I have.
Q We're going to get to -- to figuring this out yet. You're telling me that one of your grooms walked the
horse over to the horse show to be vetted. Is that what I understood?
A I don't know anymore. You're -- you've got me confused at this point.
Q Okay. Well, there's nothing confusing about it. Why did the groom walk the horse across the street?
A Obviously, because it was going to get vetted.
Q And did you know that the horse was on its way to be vetted by somebody?
A No, I did not.
Q Okay. So you didn't know about it ahead of time, that Silco was going to be vetted at some point and walked
across the street?
A I was told that the horse needed to be looked at. I have a little bit of common sense. I'm pretty sure I
could do some deductions there as to why the horse needed to be looked at, again.
Q Okay. So you're saying that --
A My God.
Q So you're saying --
A Bonnie, just --
Q Ms. Hargett, enough. Okay? We got to get through this.
A Enough. I agree.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: All right. Let's -- just one moment.
THE WITNESS: We're going --
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: No, no, no.
THE WITNESS: -- around and around in circles here.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: Excuse me. Please understand, you are here to answer questions. You are not here to
engage in dialogue, in commentary. That is inappropriate for any deposition. And I assure you that Judge Carney,
were he here, would advise you of that fact as well. This is a videotaped deposition, which can be shown to the
judge. We don't want to have to get to that point. But truly, if you listen to the questions. If the question,
number one, calls for a yes or a no, which many of Bonnie's questions have, try to answer it just yes or no. You
do not need to add the commentary. The -- the -- the -- the clearer your answer is, we can avoid this back and
forth. And it assuredly will get you out of here much sooner than otherwise. And I know that is your goal as well
as the goal of everybody in this room. So what I want everybody to do is just to take a deep breath, sit back.
Understand that you are the deponent, you are the witness. And you need to listen to the question.
Make sure you understand the question. If you don't, you have the right, certainly, to ask for the clarification.
If you understand the question, then please try to answer that as specifically as you can. But -- but the critique
back and forth is not necessary.
THE WITNESS: To answer Bonnie's question, I do not recall.
Q Okay. How far away at the time that this occurred, this horse walking across the street to the horse show
-- what barn were you at at that time?
A I was at Shoshana Gordon's.
Q Okay. And how far is Shoshana Gordon's farm from the Littlewood grounds?
A Two blocks to get to stadium jumping.
Q So a groom would have had to walk Silco two blocks to the horse show?
Q Okay. And which groom did the walking?
Q I thought I understood, from your first deposition, when we talked about this, that you told me that you
were at the farm, that your groom walked the horse across the street, and you didn't go over with him. Now you're
telling me that you weren't even present for all of this discussion.
A I was not present.
Q Okay. So that's different than what you told me previously.
A I believe our second deposition I corrected myself. It's already on the record.
Q Okay. Now, the November bill is when you were still at Shoshana's, is that correct, with Silco?
Q Okay. Who did the body clipping of Silco?
A Whoever worked for me. Olivia, Moya, myself, somebody.
Q Okay. You don't remember who did the body clipping on Silco?
A No. I probably did it myself the first time, to make sure the horse was going to be fine.
Q But you don't really know, as we sit here today, correct?
A Correct. I did not keep a running tally of did I body-clip that horse that day.
Q You have on here a portion of vets -- vet and meds, $317.50. Let me show you this, the list of expenses
on the back here. Why did Silco need, in November, a chiropractic visit?
A Because he needed to be adjusted.
A His neck was bothering him.
Q What is the $96 vet charge?
A You have a receipt for it, I believe.
Q I don't. I'm asking you what it is.
A Probably fall shots. I'd have to look.
A You -- you do have the receipt. Because you have Palm Beach Equine bills in there.
Q Okay. So that's for Palm Beach Equine?
Q Okay. And Robaxin, the depo, and the Arquel, where did you get those medications from?
A Farm -- not Farm Vet. Equine Tack and Nutrition.
Q Okay. And why was Silco needing Robaxin?
A Because he was working pretty hard. He needed -- I told you he needed to be chiropracted. He was sore.
Q And what about the depo; why did Silco need depo shots?
A All the -- all the hunters live on depo with me. It just makes them a little easier to deal with.
Q Did you ever tell Mr. Buck that the horses that you have in your charge are going to be given depo shots?
A Actually, probably I did. Because I always do that.
Q And Arquel, why did the Arquel need to be given?
A His feet were stinging him.
Q Okay. So as far as this particular bill, it's October, but the bill is for November. And I understand that
Mr. Buck paid everything but half of the day care for November and half of the stall rental, is that correct?
A I believe he paid this whole bill. Because this was only -- I only billed him for half the month.
Q I understand. So as far as you're concerned, he -- does he owe you for the remainder of the half a month
for the day care of November and the half of the month for --
Q -- the stall?
A The only reason I billed him half was a courteous to him. He came to me and said if he paid the horse bill
for the whole month, he would not be able to pay his personal bills and that he was going to have to consider selling
his car. He would not be able to buy Christmas presents or anything if he didn't get to sell one of the horses. So
as a courteous to him, I only billed him for half the month and said I would try to float the rest.
Q Now, the portion you billed him for the half of the stall was 750 of a rate of 1,500. Now, tell me exactly
how that 1,500 was broken up now.
Q How much?
A Utilities -- same. It didn't change. And then you add in another $1,500 for my housing and another $500 for
Q Well, you didn't pay any housing, because he were living with Shoshana Gordon then.
A Not in November.
Q Well, that's not what Ms. Gordon says. Ms. Gordon says you were living in her house through December.
A I don't --
Q So you're telling me now she's lying?
A I don't believe I lived at Shoshana's that long. I had to leave when the horses had to leave.
A Because her family was there.
Q Okay. So if Shoshana Gordon tells me that at the time of this bill that you were living in her house, then
A I think she would be mistaken.
Q Okay. And if -- and if she's mistaken, then -- then, obviously, those numbers need to be deducted out because
that extra 750 hasn't been incurred yet?
A Excuse me?
Q If you're living at Shoshana's and you're not paying her to live there --
Q -- then the other $750 that you --
A I didn't pay --
Q -- added.
A -- Shoshana to live there, and I didn't live there. I paid rent somewhere else.
Q Okay. So you were paying rent elsewhere and living at Shoshana's at the same time?
A I just said, I wasn't living at Shoshana's.
A I said I had to leave when the horses had to leave.
Q Okay. Well, if -- if Shoshana Gordon tells me that at this time you were, in fact, living -- I mean,
there's your stall.
Q You're saying they lived there.
A The horses lived there, correct.
Q And she said that you lived there at her house too --
A She's --
Q -- at that time.
A She's mistaken.
Q Okay. And if she's not mistaken, then that money would need to be deducted, correct?
A She's mistaken.
Q Okay. Where were the horses in December?
A At some point they moved to Tuerk Stables.
Q Okay. And the rate there was 750 a dry stall, correct?
A A dry stall, plus first -- first and last month up front, plus a deposit.
Q Okay. Question is: As it relates to Silco, the stall rental was $750 for dry stall?
A Plus housing.
Q So you added --
A Plus utilities.
Q You added another $750?
A Yes. There was over $3,000 a month incurred for housing.
Q And where were you living at this time?
A Living in an apartment.
A St. Andrews.
Q And what is your monthly rent?
A 1,450 plus utilities. First and last up front and a deposit.
Q Okay. And what --
A If anything, I underbilled him.
Q Well, in fact, as far as Mr. Buck is concerned, you overbilled him, because he was never told that he had
to pay for your housing, correct?
A He was told he had to pay $1,500 a month, which included all of that.
Q And you --
A He never asked for a breakdown. If he had, he would have known. It's not like it was a secret.
Q Okay. Let me see if I make sure I understand this --
A He never asked for a rate sheet even.
Q Okay. Let me make sure I get this correct. Because this, once again, says "stall rental."
A Because the box is this big.
Q Okay. And so, even though it has empty lines here that you could have written in something on these
other two lines, you chose not to do that, correct?
A I had already done billing this way up to this point. Why would I then do anything different? The
question had never been raised.
Q Well, did you do it different because you didn't want him to know he was paying for housing?
A I could care less what he knew he was paying for. I told him that it was going to cost X amount of
dollars per month to pay for his horses. No questions asked. He did not want any elaboration. He had --
there was fair game for him to ask a million questions that he did not ask.
Q And you think that he would have known to ask, gee, am I going to pay for where you put your head down
on the pillow?
A Actually, yeah. Because, you know what, I've had other investors say, Could you break down this expense
for me? What exactly is this paying for? And nobody had a problem with it.
Q Okay. And did Mr. King ask you about that?
A No, he did not.
Q And Did Herb King ask you?
A No, he did not.
Q Okay. Do you have any current investors since Mr. King and Mr. Buck left your steed?
A As of today, no.
Q Okay. Let's talk about the December -- or I guess this is the January bill. I think the same thing applies
then, that the stall rental, you added $750 for living expenses?
A The stall rental, again, for the record, is for the stall, it's for the staff housing, which includes myself,
it's for the utilities of the staff housing. It includes all of that. Again, I had to pay first and last month up
front, which I did not ask Mr. Buck for.
Q Well, let me show you this and ask -- -- if that is the lease that you signed with Tuerk Stables?
Q Is there anything on there that talks about you paying for staff housing to Ms. Tuerk?
A I didn't pay Ms. Tuerk staff housing.
Q Ms. Hargett, I'm going to ask you again to answer the questions that I'm asking you, instead of the
little dialogue you're giving. It's a yes or a no question. Is there anything on this document that reflects paying
staff housing to Ms. Tuerk?
A No. I did not pay staff housing to Mrs. Tuerk.
Q Okay. If you're --
A There's nothing on the lease that reflects it because I didn't pay it. I didn't rent staff housing from her.
Q Okay. Ms. Hargett --
A Well, if you're trying to get the truth here, then that's not a fair question.
Q It's a simple yes-or-no answer.
THE WITNESS: Then we need to wrap this up. I have to leave by 11:30.
MS. NAVIN: It's not going to happen. We're going to stay here until we get this done.
THE WITNESS: I have to leave by 11:30.
MS. NAVIN: I'm sorry. But if you leave, you're --
THE WITNESS: Then you're going to have to do something --
MS. NAVIN: -- violating a court order.
THE WITNESS: Well, that's fine. I -- I stated that to your assistant this morning.
MS. NAVIN: You've not sent anything to me in writing. You've not sent anything to Ms. Bass, who has
given up her day to be here, pursuant to a court order, nor the Court. So if you choose to walk out today, and
that is your choice, we will be seeking to have you sanctioned and --
THE WITNESS: That's fine.
MS. NAVIN: -- move for a final judgment.
Q Here is the bill for January. Tell me what portions on that January bill you actually paid for.
A I had to pay the stall rent through the time that I left. I had to pay the staff housing through the
time that I left. The front shoes. I think I bounced a check to Mr. James Gilchrist, which has -- has since
been resolved. The insurance was paid. Don't know about the vet and meds. It depends on who the vet was.
Probably the vet has not been paid, because I haven't been paid.
So I paid the insurance out of my own pocket. I paid the stall rent out of my own pocket. I paid the day care
out of my own pocket. The vet has not been paid, because I have not been paid. And I have since tried to --
tried to recoup paying the bill with the farrier. It's not his fault that the bill was not paid.
Q And did you, in fact, pay Mr. Gilchrist for the 187.50 for Silco?
A It has -- yes. It has recently been resolved. Very recently.
Q Now, the monies that Mr. Buck has paid since January 12th, you understand that applies to board, shoeing
and day care, stall rental, as well as training, correct?
Q And these are all bills that would have been incurred if this -- these horses had been in your possession?
Q Do you see anywhere on there, with Seacrest Stables, where they have billed Mr. Buck for living expenses?
A No. Probably because they own that farm.
Q Okay. But you don't see it anywhere on that bill, do you?
A Not on that bill, no, I do not.
Q But if it was on that bill, then you would agree to pay it, because you would think that that's standard?
A I agreed to pay $200 to ship the horse to Littlewood, and took this off -- off of Mr. Buck's bill, when that's
10 miles across town.
Q Oh, I'm sorry. Littlewood to Southwest Ranches, here in Broward County, out on US-27, is 10 miles?
A Okay. So maybe it's not 10 miles. But it's not $200.
Q You can get a shipper that's going to ship a horse from --
A I can ship it for less than that.
Q Okay. You can get a shipper that can ship a horse from Wellington to Southwest Ranches and back to Littlewood,
Q Okay. So you -- are there any of these charges on here that you do not agree with, as it relates to Silco's
charges through April 12th?
A I wouldn't have agreed to pay any of it, but I -- as a courteous to Mr. Buck, because I do own half the horse,
and I signed the same agreement that he did, stating that I would pay for half of the horse's expenses, I did deduct
that from his bill.
Q Okay. So how much does Mr. Buck currently owe you then?
A I'd have to look. But it's somewhere in the vicinity of about $22,000 now.
Q Well, you think Mr. Buck owes you $22,000?
A Well, if he's not going to -- if he's not going to pay Palm Beach Equine directly, then yes.
Q Okay. What does he owe you? I'm not talking about Palm Beach Equine.
A I believe the bill was somewhere in the neighborhood of four -- 14- or $15,000. I'd have to look. You
have all those bills there. You know it just as well as I do.
Q Did you send anything to me or to Mr. Buck telling him that you would like to have the charges that have
been incurred to date applied to any outstanding bill of Mr. Buck?
A I haven't gotten to that yet. I've only had that about a week and a half.
A Typically, you have about 30 days to respond.
Q Okay. Let's go through your first deposition. You told me in your first deposition that you made the
first cut to the Top 25 of the McClay finals. Do you still stand by that position?
A McClay Regionals.
Q Do you still stand by that position?
A We were discussing the regionals and the finals. It was the regionals.
Q Okay. Where were the regionals?
A Asheville, North Carolina, I believe.
Q Okay. Well, let me make sure we -- I read the question correct. It says here: "She took me to the
McClay Finals." What year did you do the McClay Finals? I didn't ask you regionals. Finals.
A I did both of them that year.
Q Okay. And then I asked you: "Where did you do the finals?" And I asked you -- and you told me, "in New York."
So now you're telling me that that's wrong, that -- that that's really you were talking about the --
A We -- you asked me, actually, specifically, regionals or finals. And we were discussing both.
Q Okay. All right. So now, when I asked you here -- when you answered: "I did them in New York. I made the
first cut, and I made it to the Top 25," you really meant somewhere --
A That was --
Q -- in North Carolina?
A -- at regionals.
Q Okay. So you were wrong when you gave me that answer?
A I was incorrect, yes. God forbid.
Q Okay. Do you owe money to Annie Moore?
Q Why not?
A Any bill she has give me -- given me, I have paid. Does she own $5,000 of Coco Loco? Yes. Casey Millis
has that horse.
Q Did you borrow another thousand dollars from her that you didn't return to her?
A Nothing that she has brought to my attention, at all.
Q I asked you, during your deposition, how many horses did you sell when you were at Harold Chopping's related
to your sales, and you told me that you needed to put that together. You'd have to look. Have you gone back and looked
at that for us?
A I don't have any records for that.
Q Okay. You've made no effort to go back and look?
A I made an effort to go back and look, and I have no records for that. It's hard being a transient.
Q Well, where would those records be?
A In a box, somewhere.
Q In what state?
A Maybe North Carolina; maybe Pennsylvania. I've lived in multiple places.
Q Well, do you have storage somewhere in Pennsylvania --
Q -- that these boxes would be there?
A No, I do not have storage.
Q And in Penn- -- and in North Carolina, you lived at your parents', correct?
A Yes. I also left things stored in boxes at Casey Millis's house. I'm sorry. I'm not the best bookkeeper.
Q Okay. Did you go back to Casey Millis and ask her whether or not she had any boxes in her house, as it
relates to your stuff?
A Actually, I did attempt to call her once, but got no response back.
Q And how long ago was that?
A In the last 30 days.
A Last 30 to 60 days. Since my first deposition.
Q And did you -- have you been back to North Carolina at all?
Q And did you ask your parents whether or not you had any boxes there that might contain this information?
Q And what did they say?
A I do not have anything there.
Q Okay. And did you report on the IRS any of the sales that you made or commissions you made when you were at
A I don't know what I reported. It was so long ago.
Q Are you report -- are you filing IRS statements each year?
A I did not file for a year. I thought I filed, and I did not file for a year.
Q And what year --
A I was a student.
Q -- was that?
A I don't know. I just --
A I have an accountant working on that.
Q Okay. And what is your accountant's name?
A Oh, it's in an e-mail. It's a gentleman in North Carolina. My dad's accountant.
Q But you have filed for the last five years, at least?
A I don't know. Jerry handled some of my filings for me. You can refer to him for some of those.
Q When we were talking, in your deposition, the first deposition, I had asked you questions about the
amateur rules of the USEF. And you told me you weren't sure what the rules were back in the days when you were in
North Carolina. Did you go back and look at the rules?
A I didn't say I didn't know what the rules were. I said the rules were a lot more lenient.
Q Okay. Well, in 2004, the rules indicate, of the USEF, in 2004, that accepting remuneration for riding,
training, schooling, would not make you a -- an amateur. And collecting on sales and being an agent or acting as
an agent, would not allow you to be an amateur. Did you realize that back in 2004?
A Yes. I think there's no secret here that I was trying to hide my amateur status.
Q Okay. So --
A I've already openly admitted that. That's fine.
Q Okay. And so you knew that the rules were the way they were in 2004, 2005 and 2006, but you opted to
ignore those rules for the USEF?
Q Okay. Well, did you tell Mr. Buck that you were violating the industry's regulation in the United States
Equestrian Federation in doing sales? Did you tell him that?
A Yes. Actually, I did. I told him that if I -- that if he was paying me to care for his horse, that,
technically, I should not show in the amateurs, but it made the horses more valuable. And he said, "Anything
to make money."
Q Okay. So you think that you explained to him that you were going to fraud the USEF, and he agreed with that?
Q Okay. And when did that conversation take place?
A Before he bought a horse.
Q Did you tell Herb King the same?
A Actually, I did not discuss it with Herb King because we hadn't discussed horseshowing.
Q Did you discuss it with Peter King?
A id not discuss it with Peter King because I did not discuss horseshowing. When we took Peter King's horse to
a horse show, I did not show it.
Q Who showed the horse?
A Shoshana. When it came time for Herb King's horse to show, I happily relinquished my amateur status.
Q Well, you didn't relinquish the amateur status until after this whole ordeal started, correct?
A Only because that's when I started horseshowing again. I didn't horseshow the whole ime that I had Marc
Buck's horses. So it's kind of irrelevant.
Q Did you tell Karen Tuerk that all of the horses that were stabling at her farm were yours?
A Yes. Just like I had everyone else. I was trying to keep my amateur status. Again, no secret there.
Q Why would you lie about something like that?
A I -- what -- I just -- I just answered that. I was trying to keep my amateur status.
Q So you were perpetrating this fraud all throughout everything you were doing in your business, correct?
A No. I'm not admitting any type of fraud. Absolutely not.
Q You don't think it was fraudulent to lie to barn owners that were housing horses, that those horses really
might have belonged to somebody else?
A No. Not as long as I was the one signing the lease and not them.
Q Well, what if the horse got hurt? What if the barn fell on the horse? Do you think that the owner of the
horse is going to go to Ms. Tuerk and look for some responsibility, if the barn wasn't appropriately built?
A The horse is insured. That's what that's for.
Q So that -- that -- my question to you is: Is it reasonable to understand that if Mr. Buck's horse had
gotten hurt on Ms. Tuerk's property, that he might want to seek some remuneration from Ms. Tuerk?
A If he had been paying Mrs. Tuerk, maybe. But seeing that he never paid Mrs. Tuerk a dime, I don't see
how in the world he would expect remuneration for anything.
Q Because you got in the middle of that, you interfered with that, by claiming the horses to be yours.
A No. Because Mr. Buck never paid me while the horses were at Mrs. Tuerk's.
A So no money exchanged hands, via me or anyone else, between Marc Buck and Mrs. Tuerk.
Q Let's look at your business plan a second. This is Pinested Horse Sales, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5. And
let's go through a little bit of that. You had noted that the company was nine years old?
Q And where is Pinested Horse Sales located?
A It's not located anywhere.
Q What address did you put on the business plan?
A The address that I was renting when that was printed up.
Q And whose facility is that?
A I don't know the lady's name. It was a rental through a Realtor.
Q So you don't know where 14322 Drafthorse Lane belongs to?
A I know where -- I know where it belongs, but I don't know who owns it, no. I wrote my check to a Realtor.
Q Well, at the time that you provided this business plan to Mr. Buck, you were somewhere else, correct?
A Yes. It was -- I didn't meet Mr. Buck in April of 2006.
Q I understand that. You provided that to Mr. Buck in August of 2006, correct?
Q So did you change that business plan at all to reflect that you now were in a new location?
Q Okay. Why didn't you not -- why didn't you change it?
A Just didn't. It's just not updated.
Q Other than Craig's List, where did you advertise, from 2006 to the present?
A Mostly just Craig's List.
Q And of your responses on Craig's List, the only investors that secured a -- a deal with you were Herb King,
Peter King and Marc Buck?
Q And have you secured any others?
A As of today, no.
Q Okay. You're still communicating with people via computer to individuals who are showing some interest
in your business.
A That has died down significantly.
Q And --
A I was, yes.
Q Okay. And do you remember corresponding with an individual by the name of Julie Russell?
A I don't know. I respond to a lot of people.
Q Okay. Well, Julie Russell was someone who actually came out to your barn in December and looked around,
didn't she? You don't remember that lady?
A Julie Russell, is that who Marc Buck brought to the farm in January?
Q No, ma'am. I'm talking about a lady that came out in response to -- to e-mails and correspondence with you.
A Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I do remember Julie Russell.
Q Okay. And she didn't secure any type of investment with you, correct?
A No. She couldn't see the difference in her thoroughbred horse and the horses that I showed her photos of.
Q Okay. And did you tell Julie Russell, at the time she came out to visit, that all of the horses were your horses?
A Again, just trying to keep my amateur status. It's not like I ever denied Marc Buck the ownership of his horses.
Never tried to.
Q Did you provide information to Julie Russell about your type of business and the different investments that you had?
A I don't know what I provided her. Whatever she asked for, I'm sure I provided.
Q Let's go back to these invoices here. And let me show you these invoices of Buttonwood Street, LLC, and just
ask you to take a look at those invoices. Who prepared those invoices?
A I did.
Q And those were not done at the permission of Shoshana Gordon, were they?
A Probably not.
Q Why did you prepare invoices with Shoshana Gordon's name and information on it, when it, in fact, did not
come from Shoshana Gordon?
A Because I needed an invoice for things that I wrote her checks for.
Q So instead of asking her for an invoice, you just arbitrarily created them yourself?
A We did things to help each other out, oftentimes.
Q Well, could you imagine Ms. Gordon's distaste in finding out that you created documents, these documents,
when you didn't have her permission to do so?
A No, I can't imagine.
Q Okay. And the -- the information that you provided on these -- and let's just make sure I have this --
this correct. The invoices you provided all say, "Dry stall off season," correct?
Q There's a whole lot of space on that paper. Why didn't you put on there anything about the staffing or
housing or anything of that sort?
A I just didn't. I'm not the best at billing. This is the first time I've ever done my own billing. I
used to have somebody do it for me.
Q And who used to do your billing for you?
A Nikki Stokes.
Q Okay. And where is Nikki Stokes now?
Q And when is the last time you spoke with her?
A Two weeks ago, maybe.
Q And this is the same Nikki Stokes that works at Palm Beach Equine?
Q Okay. And when did she stop doing your billing for you?
A Two years ago.
Q You would agree that the invoice amount that's on here from Buttonwood Street, for a dry stall, is not,
in fact, the amount Shoshana Gordon charged you, correct?
A Correct. I've already stated that that includes staff housing.
Q Okay. But you put on a Buttonwood Street invoice of Shoshana Gordon's, a bill from Shoshana to you, for
a dry stall, for the rate that is not the rate she charged you.
A I did that for tax purposes, so that I could expense all the money that I was paying out.
Q Okay. You would agree that that is fraudulent billing, correct?
A No, I would not agree that that's fraudulent billing.
Q You think that's acceptable to bill like that.
A Obviously, I did, or I wouldn't have done it.
Q Okay. And you can -- you don't see how that could be construed -- You can't see how that could be construed
as being dishonest or concealing the true charges that were incurred for these horses?
A As long as the expenses were incurred, no I didn't -- it's not like I pocketed that money.
Q There are -- three, four, five -- six such documents that go with Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 10. Why didn't you
just bill Marc Buck correctly? Why didn't you just ask Shoshana Gordon to provide you the actual invoices and you would
present those to your clients?
A I don't know. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Q So if Ms. Shoshana Gordon tells me that she, in fact, did give you proper invoices for the correct rates,
then she would be lying?
A She did not provide me with invoices.
A Not to my knowledge, no.
Q Okay. Now, this was provided to us from Julie Russell. Let me show this to you and ask you if you recognize
Q How do you recognize that document?
A I had somebody help me prepare it.
Q And what is that document reflective of?
A The horses that were in the barn at the time.
Q And that was in December of 2006, correct?
Q Tell me, if you would be kind enough to tell me, under "Horses owned and managed by Heather Hargett," who
the two full-shares were reflective of?
A Tristan and Pebbles.
Q And who were the half-shares of?
Q You said, "two half-shares." So --
Q When did you sell Candino?
A I didn't sell Candino. I paid off part of my bill with Shoshana by giving her my share of Candino.
Q Okay. And I thought you had told me that that had taken place back in August?
A We didn't own Candino until November.
A So no, you were incorrect.
Q So you got Candino in November. How much money did you put into Candino in November?
Q Okay. And that was out of your own pocket?
Q That wasn't any investors?
Q And then you're saying that Shoshana bought you out at some time thereafter?
Q And when did she buy you out?
A February 4th-ish, somewhere in there.
Q Of this year?
Q And how much was that buyout?
A I was credited, I believe, $30,000. And I still maintain 20 percent ownership of the profit.
Q And what was that credit of $30,000 applied to? What was that --
A Money that I've owed Shoshana.
Q Dating back how far?
A The two years that I've known her. She's helped me immensely, as I've already stated.
Q Doesn't she own some portion of Pebbles?
A I'm not sure how that is, actually.
Q Well, she paid half for Pebbles, correct?
Q And so have you ever given her any document or anything that would reflect that she doesn't have a
50 percent ownership in Pebbles?
A The payment from Candino.
Q Okay. So the payment from Candino was actually a portion for Pebbles as well?
A Money owed to Shoshana.
Q Okay. Well, I don't -- let me understand. How did it come about that you owed her money on Pebbles?
A Because she wanted to be bought out.
Q Okay. And what number did you-all decide that she would be paid to be -- to buy out Pebbles?
A We didn't.
Q Okay. So you, in fact, own a portion of Pebbles through this buy out of Candino?
Q Now, of the farm portfolio, "Horses owned by investors and managed by Heather Hargett," you have two
full-shares and one half-share. What -- what horses were you reflecting there?
A Flemmingh, Travis and Silco.
Q Okay. And you have here that the investor semiannual return, return on investment, was 29 percent.
Where did that come from?
A Actually, I'm not really sure. I had somebody help me prepare this.
Q Had you sold any horses between the year 2005 and as we sit here today?
A Between -- yes.
Q What horses have you sold from 2005 to today?
A I'd have to go back and look. But I've sold a horse or two.
Q Go ahead and give me an idea what those horses are?
A I would have to -- I have no way of recalling that. I'd have to go back and look.
Q Well, what are you going to go back and look at?
A I'm going to go back and try to look at some records, try to find something.
Q Isn't that something we've asked you to do in both depositions, that you've showed up here with nothing in hand?
A Yes. That would be correct.
Q So it's fair to say that you're probably going to come back with nothing in hand.
A It's very likely. I'm not the best bookkeeper. It's something I need to work on.
Q You don't remember horses that you may have sold to somebody in the last two years? You have no recollection
A I'm not recalling anything as I sit here right this minute.
Q So there could really be none, too, correct?
A No. There's at least one or two.
Q Okay. But you can't remember the trainer or the -- or the state even --
A I think I sold one to the -- a lady in New York, but I don't know her name.
Q Was that --
A Not somebody that I've talked to since then.
Q Okay. That --
A It was two years ago. I don't remember.
Q Would that be the horse that was owned by Alex Gerding?
A Quite possibly.
Q Tell me about how you've made arrangements to pay Mr. Gerding what you owe for that horse.
A I let him know the financial state that I was in when the horse -- when the horse deal went down.
And we had already made arrangements for me to pay him a chunk up front and make payments following. Shortly
after that, I ran into some financial difficulty, was unable to make payments. I did make some payments over
the course of that next year or six months. When I came down here, I was barely working. I had surgery. I haven't
spoken to Mr. Gerding in quite some time, but I assured him that when and -- when and in fact I had cash flow, that
he would finish getting paid.
Q How much did you sell the horse for?
Q And how was that money divvied up?
A There were three commissions paid. Alex made -- Alex was allocated 30,000. That's what he told me he
wanted. Missy Rhodes was supposed to get a commission, but Alex specifically asked me not to pay her. Because
she sent the horse to me, telling me she wanted 60,000 for the horse. When the horse wasn't getting sold because
it was too high-priced for me to then make money, while I was paying the bills on it for months on end, he came to
see me in Florida, meet me for the first time, watch me ride the horse, was happy with how the horse was going, and
said that I was not obligated to pay Missy any longer because he -- she did not get the job done.
Q So you -- so at the end of the day, with this horse deal, Alex was to get $30,000?
Q And how much did he get in that chunk, of that 62?
A He's been paid 20 -- he's owed about $8,300. So he's been paid 21 -- $21,700.
Q Okay. Now, if Alex Gerding has told us that the deal was you were buying the horse for $15,000 and you only
paid him 8,000, then he's incorrect?
A He's very incorrect. And I'll produce -- I'll find some bank statements to reflect that. And I think I have
-- I think I signed an agreement that said $30,000.
A And I'll try to find that somewhere. That -- actually, an attorney might have that.
Q What attorney might have that?
A An attorney in North Carolina.
Q And what attorney is that?
A Brian Eads (phonetic).
Q Okay. What other horses in 2005, other than the one that -- or up to the present, other than Alex Gerding?
A I -- like I said, I'd have to go back and look. I can't -- I don't recall anything right this minute.
Q Okay. Now, you also provided Julie Russell a little outline about your equestrian business, is that correct?
Q All right. And you made a statement in there that you have -- let me make sure -- if I could borrow it one second.
You had made a statement, I want to make sure I quote it correctly, that "For more than 20 years, Ms. Heather Hargett has
worked within the show jumping category of the horse industry, establishing a name amongst the industry's elite players."
Is that really an honest statement?
Q You consider yourself up there with the elite players?
A I didn't say I was personally an elite player. I said -- I believe it says that I had established a name for
myself among the elite players.
Q Okay. So -- so --
A You can interpret that however you want. Again, I had somebody that is a much better writer than myself help
me get my paperwork organized.
Q Well, who --
A I don't write very well.
Q Well, who are the elite players?
A Todd Minikus. I can go to Leslie Howard and show her a horse and she takes me seriously. David Raposa.
I mean, there's many of them.
Q And you think that that has established your name among the industry's elite players?
A Well, when Peter Fletcher comes to try horses at my farm, yeah.
Q Okay. And when did Peter Fletcher come?
A In -- in January or February.
Q And who brought him?
Q And who showed him -- what horses were he -- was he shown?
A I showed him Travis.
Q Okay. And Todd and you have had a long-standing relationship, correct?
Q Did you ever have a personal relationship with Todd?
Q Okay. So he's been somebody you've done business with over the years?
Q And how many horses have you sold through Todd in the last two years?
A In the last two years, I don't believe any.
Q And how about in the last five years?
A Two or three.
Q Okay. And when is the last time Leslie Howard bought a horse from you?
A She never bought a horse from me. She wanted to take it on trial, and we didn't let it go. I didn't say I
sold her a horse. I said she -- if I want to show her one, she comes and looks. And, again, she wanted to take it
Q Has she ever bought a horse from you?
Q Has Todd ever bought a horse from you?
A Not from me, no.
Q Has Peter Fletcher ever bought a horse from you?
Q Has Andre Dignelli ever bought a horse from you?
A No. Never said that these people had.
Q What -- what professional has bought a horse from you in the last 10 years?
A The lady in New York; I don't know her name. Annie Moore. I don't know all the professionals' names.
Q So you're telling me that you considered yourself selling among the industry's elite players, but you can't
sit here and tell me any -- any of these elite players who have bought --
A I helped Todd Minikus --
Q -- a horse through you.
A -- sell a $150,000 horse. I think -- yeah, I think that qualifies as something.
Q Okay. You sold one horse for 150, that you helped him with, is that correct?
Q And that was to Booth Parker?
Q Okay. And what was your commission out of that deal?
A He wiped my bill clean. And Booth paid me a thousand dollars. I think my bill was in the vicinity of
Q And if your bill had been clean, you would have received that money in cash, correct?
A I don't know if he would have paid me in cash. I don't know.
Q Well -- or check or whatever. You would have received a commission?
A I don't know -- I don't know what he would have done. We didn't discuss it before the horse got sold.
Q Well, you expected money out of it, correct?
A I expected money from Booth, and I got a thousand dollars.
Q Okay. A thousand out of the $150,000 sale?
Q And what would be the standard commission back when you sold the horse?
A I wasn't looking for a standard commission. Booth was my best friend since third grade.
Q When is the last time you talked to her?
A Was my best friend since third grade. Two years ago.
Q What made that relationship go south?
A The deal with Jerry Stevenson and the check.
Q Okay. Back to the business plan that you were looking at. Your business plan notes that you formed the
company in 1996. Where did you actually form the company Pinested?
A It's just a name I gave it. I wouldn't say I formed a company; I did this for myself.
Q Why did you form Griffon Gate here in Florida?
A Has a nicer ring to it. I liked it better than Pinested.
A There's no pine trees in Florida.
Q Do you remember when you did that --
Q -- filing? When was it?
A Approximately August 2nd.
Q Why did you not do it sooner?
A Didn't have a need to.
Q Well, did you tell Mr. Buck at the time that he was getting into business with you that your Griffon Gate
Farm was not an established corporation?
A I don't know what I told him in regards to that. I wouldn't have lied about when it was publicly stated
because you can go online and look this up.
Q And is that, in fact, what I've just shown you, your Griffon Gate documentation?
Q And who helped you with that?
A I did it online.
Q And why did you -- you're -- you're considered the registered agent?
Q And what's the address of the registered agent?
A I had to list a physical address. And I used Shoshana Gordon's physical address.
Q Have you made any attempts to correct that since you left Shoshana's in December of 2006?
A Yes, I did, actually. They're supposed to send me a form to change that. You can't do it online.
Q And when did you make that request?
A February sometime.
Q Why did you put your address of your manager in North Carolina?
A Because that's my permanent address.
Q Okay. Do you have a Florida driver's license?
A No, I do not.
Q What state driver license do you have?
A North Carolina.
Q Do you have your license here with you today?
A No. Not -- not on my body. It's in my car.
Q Okay. That license is under the name Hargett or Williams?
Q You've never tried to get a Florida license now that you've been in Florida since August of '06?
A No. I've been waiting on the paperwork for my name change.
Q And the name change issue, let's talk a little bit about that. What has been done as far as changing
your name legally to Heather Williams?
A I went as far as getting the fingerprints. Once the bill got too large with Ms. Wolfskeil, she did not
-- the reason I hired Ms. Wolfskeil was to change my name and to place the lien against those two horses so that
they couldn't leave without the bill being paid, neither of which were really done. All of this other drama kind
of was intermixed, ran up a bill, unbeknownst to me. I had no idea it was quite like that. And so she no longer
wanted to help with that. So I've consulted someone else.
Q Okay. And what efforts has that person made in getting you that name change?
A I don't know how far they've gotten.
Q Okay. There's nothing that's been filed in the Palm Beach court, correct?
A I -- I do not know. It wasn't in Palm Beach County.
Q Where were you trying to do the name change?
A With Mr. Gutierrez, in Miami.
Q But at the time that you started this, you were doing it when you were in Wellington?
Q Okay. Hold on one second. Okay. We were talking last couple depositions about Jacob Williams. When
is the last time that you saw Jacob Williams?
A Couple weeks ago.
Q And was he here or -- or did you go to Texas?
A Nope. He was here.
Q Okay. I asked you in the first two depositions, and the Court has ordered you to provide me the phone
number and address of Mr. Williams.
A The last known address was 11765 St. Andrews Place, No. 101, Wellington, Florida 33414. And last
known phone number (561)847-5398.
Q Okay. And those are your phone numbers -- your phone number, correct?
A Yep. It's been turned off.
Q Okay. And -- and that is your address?
Q You're telling me that you do not have Jacob Williams' contact in Texas?
A No. We've separated ourselves from each 3 other entirely.
Q And when did that occur?
A A couple weeks ago.
Q And why?
A Because of all of this. I won't have any contact with him until after the trial.
Q Okay. Well, the question I have of you is: What is the phone number in Texas, or any other state,
where you were reaching him, other than your phone number?
A That's all -- that's the only number I have for him.
Q Okay. And how about the address in Texas?
A That's the only -- the only address I have for him.
Q Okay. Isn't it true that Jacob Williams doesn't exist?
A No, that's not true.
Q Okay. So Jacob Williams is the person who called Michael Newman for you?
A Huh? I actually don't know that Jacob ever talked to Michael Newman. But Michael said in his deposition he did.
Q Okay. And when did you see Michael's deposition?
A You sent it to me, I believe, at some point. I think Alecia -- somebody showed it to me. Maybe when I was
in the attorney's office.
Q Okay. I've never sent it to anybody, so that's why I'm asking.
A Michael Newman's deposition?
Q Yes, ma'am.
A Yeah. No, I got a copy. Maybe Michael Newman's attorney sent it to me then. I still speak to Michael, so --
Q And you understand that Mr. Newman has no intention of ever doing any more business with you?
A Not what I talked to him about a couple weeks ago. But that's fine.
Q Okay. So you are still doing -- trying to do business with Michael Newman?
A I still consult him on certain issues.
Q You still talk to him?
Q And what do you consult him on?
A Various things: Horses, this, anything and everything.
Q What did you talk to Michael Newman about for this lawsuit?
A Asked him if he thought I did anything wrong. Asked him what he saw when he read everything. What and if
I could do to not put myself back in this situation again.
Q And what was his advice to you on whether or not you did anything wrong?
A If you do horses long enough, sooner or later somebody gets upset. But no, he did not feel like I did
Q So he thought it was acceptable for you to change his documents?
A I didn't change his documents. I made -- I made the documents my own.
Q Well, you know that because of this particular case and your involvement with it, he has now changed the
entire way he does his business online. Did you know that?
A No, I didn't know that.
Q You didn't know now, because of this case and -- and you attaching pictures of his horses, that he now has
copyrighted those and put names on the photos so that can be -- not -- no longer be done?
A No, I didn't know that. But that's great for him.
Q He didn't tell you that it was because of you --
Q -- and your case? And how about when he read everything, what did he tell you?
A He called me when he returned from Europe and just, you know, gave his condolences and told me he did not
feel like I did anything wrong. We had about a half an hour conversation. It was quite nice.
Q Okay. And so you're saying that he told you you didn't need to do any different in the way you do your
business after he read through everything?
A No. I mean, we talked about some of the things that we would do differently. But nothing that --
nothing that he saw as a big red flag.
Q And what were those that you would --
A Things that I would do differently? Well, clearly, I will -- I will come up with a better contract, so
somebody is more aware of the bills that they're going to pay and their responsibility. I don't have to worry
about the amateur issue anymore. That was the big thing, that if I'm not worrying about staying an amateur, then
that opens a lot of doors.
Q And did Mr. Newman give you the impression that he would do business with you again?
A Yes, he did.
Q Okay. You read through his entire deposition?
Q Okay. Is there anything in the deposition that you did read that you disagreed with?
A I don't think so.
Q You would agree that the business plan that you provided to Mr. Buck of the Pinested Horse Sales is all
about you being an agent for selling horses, correct?
Q And that business plan, in and of itself, is a violation of the amateur rules, is it not?
A We've already established that. Yes.
A The business plan, however, if I don't have any horses backing it up, does not violate the amateur rule.
Q Well, it certainly says that you've been in business for nine years, right?
A For myself.
Q Well, here. Let's go through it then. If -- if we want to do it painstakingly, we sure can. That you've
been selling horses and providing customers with quality horses for nine years?
Q And your market is women and children?
Q So you're -- you're talking about all the sales --
A Selling --
Q -- you've done --
A Selling horses that I've had -- yes, that I have had.
Q All right. And what about the investors? You say here you've made return of invest -- return of investment
for your investors.
A The investor could be myself or my family. It doesn't -- it does -- it's not that specific.
Q But you didn't spell it out. You didn't say, hey, this is all about me and my family.
A Again, somebody helped me write this. This is a model. You type in your information and it generates
this for you. I don't write that well. But could -- I couldn't conjure up a business plan all by myself.
Q Okay. I just took a call from Alecia Wolfskeil, who advises me that you need to make an official request
in writing for documents. She does not believe that she has the documents that you've discussed with -- with us,
that you told us at the beginning of the deposition. She does not believe she has them. But as soon as she gets
your written response -- which she acknowledged an e-mail this morning was the first request she had ever received.
So she said that she doesn't believe she has them, but you can make a written request --
Q -- and she'll provide those. Now, who is Waterview Farm?
A Nobody. It -- it was me. It was -- I did business as Waterview Farm for a while.
Q And you had a bank account as Waterview Farm?
A I think so.
Q Did you also have a bank account for Griffon Gate?
Q Okay. Have you sorted out -- I know you were telling me you have a hearing tomorrow morning. Have you
sorted out with Ms. Fenner the lawsuit in Palm Beach that's currently ongoing?
A Yeah. That doesn't have anything to do with this. It's an ongoing case. I'm not going to discuss that
on the record --
Q Have you --
A -- until it's been resolved.
Q Have you sorted out the case?
A Sorted out the case?
Q Have --
A What do you mean?
Q Have you paid Mr. King the money that you owe him?
A We are working on that, as we speak.
Q Okay. This is the complaint from the Peter King. I'd like you to take a look at it and tell me if you
recognize that complaint.
Q Okay. And there's a check attached as well?
Q Okay. What is that check reflecting?
A That was for payment for a horse.
Q And what horse?
Q And what was the payment for? For how much money?
A The sale of the horse.
Q How much did you sell the horse for?
Q Why is the check for 87?
A Because I wanted to guarantee Peter make money on his money.
Q So you wrote him a check that was no good?
A No. The check was good until he stole the horse.
Q Okay. So what did you do to stop the check?
A Stopped payment on it.
Q Okay. And did you get the horse back?
Q Okay. And when did -- when was that horse stolen?
A Tuesday afternoon. Whatever Tuesday was.
Q And how long after this check had been provided?
A What do you mean?
Q Well --
A The check was -- it was a postdated check.
Q Okay. And it was postdated from what day to what day?
A It --
Q Do you need the agreement to help you reflect?
A It should have been dated for the 7th. We were told by the bank, with Herb King standing there, that
the check would take five days to clear. And we counted the day that we were there as the check clearing, and
actually the check, in essence, was -- was posted to the bank account at three o'clock on a Wednesday afternoon.
So we counted Wednesday as the day of it clearing, which it should not have. It should have been -- Thursday,
Friday, Monday, Tuesday -- Wednesday was the earliest it would have cleared. They said five to seven days. There's
no way that this should have been written on the 6th.
A We just got a little anxious.
Q All right. And he actually didn't put the check in until the 8th, correct?
A No. He went to the bank and tried to cash it. And then, on the 6th, when the horse was taken, we stopped
payment on the check immediately.
Q So the horse -- you're saying that the horse was taken on the same day that he presented the check to the bank?
Q And then you went ahead and had a stop payment put on it?
A Correct. Because he had the horse.
Q Okay. And you wrote the check to Peter King, correct?
Q So why have you not -- now that you've gotten your horse back, why have you not written him a new check?
A Because we need to resolve it through legal channels. And that takes time, unfortunately.
Q What's -- what is the problem with re- -- reimbursing him the 85,000 from the bad check?
A Well, because the -- the horse was stolen. The horse had to undergo some testing from vets and such. My
father wanted to decide whether to press charges or not. Again, it had -- it needs to go through legal channels.
Q And how long did he have the horse?
A Two days.
Q So you're --
A Enough to hurt it.
Q So you're implying that in that two days Tristan was injured?
A He could have been.
Q And was he?
A Not at liberty to discuss right now.
Q Well, the question is: Was Tristan injured in the two days that Mr. King had the horse?
A The findings are inconclusive.
Q And what vet did the look for that?
A Excuse me?
Q What vet looked over Tristan for that?
A Hasn't been viewed by the vet yet. He's coming in town this week.
Q Well, what vet is that?
A Dr. Ober.
Q Okay. Do you owe Dr. Ober money?
A I do not.
Q Do you think Dr. Ober is going to do work with you again?
A When -- when the bill is paid from Anatole, yes, Dr. Ober will do the work.
Q So you're saying that Anatole Group owes money?
Q And when has Dr. Ober did any work for you since the bill with Anatole Group?
A He actually viewed some x-rays for me in November for Candino.
Q Okay. And did he charge you for that?
A I don't believe so.
Q And when is the last time you spoke with Dr. Ober?
A About two weeks ago at the bank.
Q And how -- was it something you just ran into him?
Q So have you made arrangements for him to come and look at Tristan? Is that you're saying, he's coming
in this week to look at him?
A No. I think when he's done with the World Cup, I will call and make arrangements. He's been tied up with
World Cup horses.
Q Okay. And you think that he's going to come and do work for you?
A As long as the bill has been paid, yes. I discussed it with his office lady.
Q And who is his office lady?
A I don't know her name, but you can call Steele Clinic and find out.
Q Okay. Do you owe money to Dr. Flynn in Virginia?
Q And how much money do you owe him?
A I don't know. $3,000, $4,000.
Q And when was it that you incurred those charges?
A Last fall -- or the fall before last. 2005.
Q December of '05?
A Yeah. That sounds about right.
Q Okay. And why haven't you honored those charges for the prepurchases that he did for you?
A Well, (A) I haven't had the money, and (B) the -- I thought there was a conflict of interest. As soon
as the horses started not passing the vet, he started trying to sell me his own personal horses.
Q Okay. So -- so are you intending to pay the bill, or you just believe that there's a conflict and now
you shouldn't have to pay it?
A No. I'll pay it at some point, when I have money.
Q When is the last time that you talked to them?
A I don't know.
Q Okay. Well, here's the invoice back from -- from Dr. Flynn that he says you owe him $4,083.14. And you're
telling me that at some point you plan on honoring that payment?
Q Okay. And that would be Georgetown eques -- Equine Hospital, correct?
Q And why did you order prepurchase examinations that did in fact -- that he did the services for you and
then you didn't honor paying him?
A Well, because we were going to follow through with buying the horses. And like I said, once the horses --
I sent him to look at a horse that later got bought and resold twice, that passed the vet fine, but didn't pass the
vet with him. Sent him to look at a second horse. It had a bump on its leg. He didn't want to pursue it at all, was
just adverse to going back to look at it, and started to proceed to try to sell me his own horses.
Q Well, a vet doesn't pass or flunk a horse, isn't that correct? They just tell you what's wrong with it,
and you decide whether or not you want to invest in it?
A No. He basically stopped the vetting and said we shouldn't proceed.
Q Okay. So he didn't --
A So I did.
Q -- complete the vetting?
A Yeah -- no. Which was fine, at the time. And then hindsight, it seemed like that he was then trying to
sell me his horses. I don't dispute that I owe him the honey. That's fine.
Q What two horses did he vet for you in December of '05?
A I don't know. Two -- two sale horses. I don't even remember.
Q Who owned them?
A I don't know.
Q Who were you buying them for?
A Diane Crump.
Q Okay. And who were you buying them for?
A Oh. Customers.
Q Did you ever sell those customers horses?
A No. We stopped because of the other stuff going on.
Q What other stuff?
A The stuff with Jerry. We didn't proceed.
Q Now, we talked about the bill with Dr. Griffith. You haven't made any payment to Dr. Griffith for the
bills incurred for Flemmingh and Silco, is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q Didn't you tell me that you had credited the $1,281 towards Dr. Griffith's bill?
A No. I believe I said Palm Beach Equine.
Q So this bill from August, when -- when were you planning on paying this bill?
A When I received payment from Marc to cover all of the expenses. When Flemmingh had to go into the vet
clinic, you -- there's a certain amount of up front money that needed to be paid. And it was either pay Dr. Griffith
or let Flemmingh go in for the vet work. The vet work needed to be done, so I paid Palm Beach Equine.
Q Well, the charges incurred on Flemmingh and Silco were from August 14th, on the bill that Marc had already
prepaid you long before you made your way to Palm Beach Equine in late September. So why didn't you pay the bill
with the $1,281 that Marc gave you?
A I didn't even get the bill from Dr. Griffith until sometime after Dr. Snyder had already looked at the horse.
Q Okay. That's what you believe?
A That's -- I -- that's what I know.
Q And you have copies of those bills?
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay. And you agree that you asked for services to be done on Flemmingh, Pebbles, Silco, Travis and Tristan, correct?
Q And you owe him for all of those horses?
Q Why haven't you made payment for Pebbles, Bernesto or Travis?
A What part of "I don't have any money right now" do you not understand?
Q Well, what about -- why didn't you --
A If I don't have $5, I don't have $5. I can't -- I'm not going to write him -- I'm not going to write him a
bad check. So I haven't paid him. I haven't had it to pay.
Q But you had money back in August and September, when these bills were being paid, correct?
A That I paid to Palm Beach Equine. I wrote Palm Beach Equine a check for like six grand.
Q And then --
A I had to buy a new saddle for Flemmingh. I mean, I've incurred a lot of expenses.
Q And the check to Palm Beach Equine bounced, correct?
A The first time, yes.
A And within a week, it was fixed. Just like Marc Buck's check to me bounced.
Q Okay. And within a week it was fixed, right?
A Exactly. Unfortunately, sometimes it's just a clerical error. It's not somebody's ill feelings.
Q You had a horse of Daniel Gietner's vetted two weeks ago, on 3/15 of '07?
Q And why haven't you made payment to Carolina Equine for that service?
A Because we're still trying to get the purchase organized.
Q Okay. So you ordered a prepurchase examination that was done on March 14th of 2007, and you still have
failed to pay for the service --
Q -- when it was rendered? Why did you give them a credit card and ask them to hold the card for you to
replace it with a check?
A Because I was waiting for a check from a client.
Q Okay. So you're saying --
A They have since backed out of the deal because of all the stuff online.
Q Well, the stuff was online at the time this deal was going through, correct?
A Huh? That's what I mean. At the time -- they -- they backed out of the deal after the prepurchase was done.
So I'll figure out how to pay those people.
Q -- why did you have the services done under the name of Heather Williams if you're not legally known as
A Because I had to give them a credit card.
Q And you're saying that your credit card has the name Heather Williams on it?
A I was told by an attorney that I could -- that because I'd already been using Heather Williams and the
paperwork was in process, to continue using Heather Williams. That it's not like it's an alias. I am making every
effort to change my name.
Q So you're agreeing that any amount of money or any dealings or any contracts that you have done in the name
of Heather Williams, that you honor those agreements --
Q -- and those monies?
A Fully. Absolutely.
Q How about Spurlock Equine, do you remember a horse being vetted by the name of San -- San Romano?
A Yeah. That's the one that Dr. Griffith -- or not Dr. Griffith. I'm sorry -- Dr. Flynn wouldn't pass.
Q Okay. Well, you sent another vet over there --
Q -- correct?
A Because I really liked the horse. It was really nice.
Q And what vet did you send?
A Somebody Diane recommended. I guess Spurlock Equine.
Q Okay. And even though San Romano was vetted, that was $770, correct?
Q Okay. Now, who owned San Romano?
A I don't know who owned him.
Q Okay. That wasn't the one that was owned by Jason Berry?
A Jason Berry didn't own any of those horses.
Q Okay. And that was a service that was also done for you back in December of '05, correct?
Q And why have you failed to honor that bill for $770 --
A Because the --
Q -- to now the second vet?
A Because the -- the people walked away from the table, didn't buy any horses, and they didn't feel the
obligation. So I am stuck with the bill. So I will take care of the bill when and -- when I have money.
Q But why are you going out and ordering vettings on horses that you don't have deals done on yet, or at
least where you've explained to people that they have to honor or pay up front these vettings?
A I did explain that but have yet to follow through with any of it, obviously.
Q Ms. Hargett, you were telling me that you're going to opt out of the rest of this deposition shortly
because you have a sick horse, is that correct?
Q What is the name of the horse that's sick?
A I don't -- I'm not going to state that.
SPECIAL MASTER BASS: Let me just --
THE WITNESS: You gotta understand -- that being posted on the Internet, people -- that's -- that's a huge
conflict, to post things like that. If -- if that information can remain confidential and in -- in this office, then
I'll be happy to state that.
Q I'm not going to honor that.
A Well, then --
Q You're refusing to answer the question?
Q Did a vet come and look at the horse yesterday?
A No. I gave him 10 ccs of the Banamine and the fever came down and I stayed with him all afternoon.
Q Okay. And you were telling me earlier that Olivia works for you now, correct?
Q And you're telling me she's not capable to have you call her and see how the horse is doing so we can
continue this deposition?
A She doesn't give shots, and I believe he needs another shot. It's been 24 hours. He needs another shot
Q You didn't do -- you're not a vet, correct?
Q You can call a vet to do that service for you so you --
Q -- can continue this deposition, correct?
A I -- no. I -- I do that myself. I'm not paying a hundred dollars for a vet to come out. I don't have
any money. I've already stated that.
A The -- the shot of Banamine costs me $9. I already have it in my possession.
Q You understand that leaving this deposition could --
A I --
Q -- could outwardly bring a judgment against you for hundreds of thousands of dollars, but you're willing
to take that risk?
A Than kill the horse, yes. I'm sorry.
Q Okay. You did a service --
A You -- you're already -- you're giving me a hard time about vet bills here that I can't pay, and you want
me to run up another one. I just don't think that's smart.
Q Okay. That's your choice. Did you do a vetting with Dr. Casinella on a horse named Dasher in December of 2005?
Q Through Blue Ridge Equine Clinic?
Q And that was a horse owned by Jason Berry, correct?
A No, it was not owned by Jason Berry.
Q Who owned the horse?
A I don't know who owned the horse, but it wasn't Jason Berry. He was acting as the agent.
Q Okay. So -- so Jason Berry was the agent?
A Correct. Is he listed as the owner? Hmm. That happens often, huh?
Q No, he's not listed as the owner.
A I didn't think so.
Q You were the one who ordered that exam, correct?
Q And that was a cost of $1,420 that you have failed to honor?
Q Why did you fail to order a prepurchase examination on Dasher and not pay the bill?
A We were -- again, I had a group of horses put together for a project for an investor, and we didn't
follow through with the project because of the other things going on. They didn't feel the need to pay those
bills, so I am stuck with them.
Q Now, these people have been sending you monthly bills on what's been owed, correct?
Q Why didn't you take one of these bills and use a number, 1,281, like you did for Mr. Buck? How did you
come up with 1,281, if you had all these different bills to choose from?
A The last -- the one that was on the top of the list is the one I grabbed. It was 1,281.
Q Okay. You also have an outstanding invoice dating back to November of 2004 with Dr. Ipock for medications,
is that correct?
A No, that's not correct. That bill is for Casey Millis for a horse called Coco Loco.
Q Okay. So you didn't --
A Casey Millis, Coco Loco.
Q So you didn't call the vet and ask her to have medications shipped down to you from North Carolina to Florida?
A For Coco Loco, yes, I most certainly did, with Casey sitting right there.
Q Okay. And you didn't put -- you didn't tell her to bill Casey? You told her to bill it under your name?
A I forwarded the bill to Casey, as I also did.
A Casey had never had a problem paying for the horse's medication.
Q You understand that that bill has not been honored?
A No, I did not know that. I was under the impression Casey had paid it.
Q Peter Erdos -- we were talking last time about Peter Erdos.
Q And you were telling me about a deal you got into with him. And here is a copy of the contract that
Mr. Erdos provided us, dated April 24th of 2005.
Q And you prepared that document?
Q And this document says that Peter and Stephanie Erdos are going to be giving you $10,000 to invest in four
horses you were buying from Canada, is that correct?
A Not buying from Canada. We were taking them in on consignment.
Q And what horses were those?
A Coolio. And then we ended up -- we only got the one horse from Canada. I took in a horse called Dillon and
I took in a horse called Thomas. And then I had another horse called Dillon, that the expenses were paid for. Those
were the four horses.
Q So there's two named Dillon?
A Yeah. Oh, no. Cruise. Cruise. I'm sorry. The second gray one was Cruise. I'm sorry.
Q And the first one was what?
Q Spell that for me.
Q And how was Mr. Erdos supposed to make money on his $10,000 investment?
A When the horses come in on consignment -- an example, is the girl who had Coolio. She wanted $50,000.
She wasn't supposed to pay any of the bills. And if we could make -- could sell the horse for a hundred or 75 or
whatever, then the profits would just go -- split amongst the -- amongst the people who paid for the expenses.
Q Well, it says, "For the purpose of selling four horses from Canada." So, in fact, only one horse came
for that deal --
Q -- correct?
Q Why did you not go back to Mr. Erdos and tell him that you were agreeing to come in for four horses, but
we only got one?
A Because we had four horses.
Q But these specifically say "from Canada," this contract says, correct?
A Yeah. But I didn't -- I -- I -- those horses were right there and very saleable horses. So I opted to have
those four horses instead of four horses from Canada. Rather than incur the shipping expense, when I got to Kentucky
and could take on one or two others there, I did.
Q But the point is, you didn't tell him that these were not going to be from Canada, only one would be from Canada?
A That was irrelevant. He knows nothing about horses. It should not matter what -- what country they came from.
Q Well, isn't it in the contract, so he would understand the contract you prepared?
A Okay. Fine.
Q I'm asking you. You think that it's acceptable to go outside of what a contract says?
A I think it's acceptable that if I have horses in Kentucky and didn't have to pay $1,500 to ship two other
horses from Canada, and I have somebody that wanted me to take their horses from Kentucky, that fit into this type of
scenario, then yes, I think that's perfectly acceptable.
Q So on April 24th of 2005, you entered into a sales agreement with Peter Erdos of some form of an investment?
Q Okay. And that was also in violation of your amateur status.
A Again, yes. You can beat that to death.
Q We're going to beat it to death. And -
A That's fine.
Q And that's a -- a violation that you made. Did you tell Mr. Erdos, at the time you wrote this contract, that
I'm an amateur and I'm not supposed to be giving a contract?
A Yes. Most people I'm actually am quite up front about that.
Q Okay. And you were telling us last time that you have honored or made resolutions to pay the bill, is that
A I have given him a thousand dollars.
Q Okay. And that was when?
A In November.
Q Okay. And that was after, I believe, he jumped on the top of your car and took a ride through a parking lot,
A Yeah. Actually, it was.
Q So he actually had to chase you down, literally, in the biblical sense --
A No. I didn't pay him then. I paid him about two months later.
Q All right. Because he was going to chase you down for the money, correct?
A Correct. Yes. No. He acted like a crazy person.
Q Okay. And you told him that in 2005, late 2005, that his investment had actually brought him $23,000, is
A Yes. And then that turned -- the -- that did not follow through like it was supposed to.
Q So he believed he was getting 23,000, and in fact that didn't happen?
Q And you haven't even paid him back of the $10,000. You paid him one thousand dollars?
A I actually have no obligation to pay him back. This was an investment that turned out to not be a good
investment. It was a bad venture.
Q You've had a lot of bad ventures, haven't you?
A Yeah, I have. I -- I'm learning the hard way.
Q Did you ever sit down with Mr. Buck, when he came in, in August of 2006, and said to him, hey, I know I
gave you a business plan that says I'm amongst the elite, and I'm a great seller, and I sold all these horses,
but I want to let you know that I got a -- a slew of investors and veterinarians all over the country that I haven't
paid and I haven't made any money for?
A No. I wasn't asked those questions.
Q Okay. You didn't offer it either --
Q -- did you?
A Because I -- I continue to try make things better.
Q But you didn't tell him that, you know what, my market isn't as big as I think it is, because I now owe
money in Virginia and all other places.
A That has nothing to do with the sale of his horses.
Q And --
A And -- and the quality of the horses I bought him. It has nothing to do with that.
Q Or investing in you, correct?
A It has nothing to do with that.
Q You think that --
A The money I make -- if I can then pay those bills, what does that have to do with Marc Buck?
Q Okay. You hadn't had any successful investors up until the point Mr. Buck came into this picture, did you?
A I had successful sales. And, no, I did not tell Mr. Buck that I had successful investors. I told him --
told him this was a brand-new growing business. That I was just now taking on investors. That I had been doing it
by myself recently. Those were my exact words.
Q But the business plan says you've been in business nine years and been -- been doing it for nine years --
A I had --
Q -- and you had investors.
A I had been buying and selling horses for nine years. I told Mr. Buck that this was a new, thriving and
growing business. Why would he offer to bring in outside people?
Q Let's talk about Dillon. Dillon was owned by Ashley Buchanan, correct?
Q And Ashley Buchanan and yourself entered into a written agreement in or about January of 2005 for you to
A February. But yes.
Q Okay. And she had the horse shipped to Florida?
Q And the deal in the contract was what, for you to sell the horse?
A If the -- she -- ultimately, she -- at -- her bottom dollar was 18,000. If I sold the horse for 20,000,
I gotten 10 percent, which would leave her $18,000. If I sold the horse between 20- and $30,000, I think I got a
15 percent commission. If I sold the horse for more than $30,000, I got a percentage of a commission plus a
percentage of the profit, because I was incurring all the expenses on the horse.
Q Once again, you entered into a written agreement claiming that -- to be an agent for a horse, when, in
fact, you were showing as an amateur?
Q And during this time, you didn't sell the horse when it was here in Florida, did you?
Q And why not?
A He got an abscess in his foot, and he needed -- he -- when he came, he used to kick up at the canter all
the time. He was a little bit difficult to make comfortable. He was chiropracted multiple times. He wasn't fit.
He wasn't strong. Once we got his feet comfortable and got him feeling better, then he became much, much more saleable.
It was quite a nice horse.
Q And you, in fact, took the horse to Kentucky after the contract ended, correct?
A Yes. At -- Ms. Buchanan knew the horse was going to Kentucky. The contract stated that I could have him
for seven days so that she had the right to come and get him back at any point in time.
Q You --
A Something I disputed but went along with. So I had the horse. Ended up I had him like three or four months.
Q The horse went to Kentucky, correct?
Q And at the time that it was in Kentucky, Ms. Buchanan told you that she wanted to come and pick up the horse?
A No. That is incorrect.
Q Okay. And did you remember telling Ms. Buchanan that you were going to buy the horse personally for 25,000?
A Correct. I was going to -- I was going to send her $5,000 and then make monthly payments.
Q And you never sent her any money, correct?
A She came and picked the horse up before I even had a chance.
Q Well, didn't -- it was weeks before you made that payment, correct?
A Excuse me?
Q It was weeks before any payment was ever made?
A No. She -- she -- we had to have a contract, because her father is an attorney. And by the time we
ironed out the contract -- it started out when -- the first contract I did receive was while I was in Kentucky,
and it had things like interest for certain amount of months and things like that. And I was already making
sure she had a profit. And I said, I'm not interested in paying any interest. If that's the case, then, you
know, you come pick up your horse or whatever. So we -- we continued to work out the agreements of the contract.
I took the horse to Chicago, which she was well aware of. Shoshana, I believe, mailed off the final contract
agreement for me. Was waiting for it to be signed. And about three days later, Ashley showed up and picked up
Q And when she picked up the horse in Chicago, it was actually on the vet stand being vetted, wasn't it?
A Yes, it was.
Q For $60,000, by Gary Franklin?
Q So did you ever call her and tell her that you were now going to buy -- you wanted to buy the horse in
payments, but yet you were willing to sell it to Gary Franklin and his client, there at Chicago, for $60,000?
A No. I had a contract that said if I sold it for more than $30,000, I got my percentage of a commission
plus X amount of the profit. It's -- it's no different.
Q But why --
A I hadn't paid her, so therefore it's still her horse. She would have gotten her $30,000 plus the profit.
Q Why didn't you pick up the phone and tell her, hey, I haven't paid you, but I'm going to show it for sale?
A As -- as -- as Ashley is well aware of, I actually did have phone trouble while I was in Chicago. And we
worked around the clock there. We started at 4:00 in the morning and worked until eight o'clock at night. It was
the longest horse shows I have ever been to.
Q I think she told me that you did talk to the police about having phone trouble when the police were there,
and your phone rang right on the spot.
A It -- it -- it worked sometimes; it didn't work all the time.
Q But it did -- it worked so -- it didn't work for a period of weeks, so --
A It didn't work --
Q -- you didn't --
A It didn't --
Q -- return her calls, correct?
A I didn't return her calls for like three days.
A It's not like I didn't return her calls for three months.
Q Okay. And you threatened to sue them, correct?
A I don't know. Probably. I was probably upset.
Q Well, she had certainly given you ample time to sell the horse, correct?
A Oh, for sure.
Q Okay. In your business plan, you talk about your operations being in Wellington and New Hope. What time
of year were you going to New Hope?
A Contemplating going up there for the summers.
Q Okay. But you weren't established there at that point?
A No. Again, it is a model.
Q You also said, at page 3 of your business plan, that your operations consisted of sales, training,
advertising, marketing, showing and caring for the horses, is that correct?
Q And you were the president, with your responsibilities being purchasing, training, hiring and customer service?
Q And you agree that any of those things that you would have done would have been in violation of your amateur status?
Q Did you --
A When -- for the record, when the business plan was submitted, I was not showing. It doesn't matter if I'm an
amateur or professional if I'm not showing. If I went and competed at the horse show, after I gave that business plan
to Marc Buck, as an amateur, then we have something to talk about. I didn't compete.
Q But you're telling me that you sat down and told him that you planned on violating --
A Well --
Q -- the amateur status.
A -- I -- it -- it -- it was open for discussion, for sure.
Q Well, you were registered in 2006 with the USEF as an amateur.
Q So you didn't call the USEF and tell them, Take me off as an amateur because I'm working in business?
A If I had gone to a horse show, I would have had to have changed it.
Q Okay. But you were going to horse shows in 2004 and 2005 when you violated it.
Q Okay. So for the record, you were violating it?
A I have stated nothing but that from day one.
Q Okay. You used Waterview Farm name to lease a barn from Debbie Cloudier, of Wellington?
Q And you owe her money still too, don't you?
A About $3,000, yes.
Q Why have you not honored that debt?
A Because I don't have the money.
Q Well, this has been since winter of 2005. Why would you have gotten involved with more business people,
if you didn't pay the bills you already owed?
A How do you expect to make money if you're not in business?
A At some point, business has to carry on so that you can generate income so you can pay off debt.
Q You would agree that selling -- one of the selling points to your investors is your experience in dealings
in the horse industry?
Q Did you ever advise any of your investors, from August to the present, that you, in fact, had a limited
market due to your poor business dealings of nonpayments?
A No. I don't have a limited market.
A I disagree.
Q You disagree with that. Okay. Your marketing plan says that you agree that operating in Wellington was
the basis of your pitch because the horse show has 25,000 potential customers, correct?
Q So you were planning on being in Wellington at least six months a year?
Q Did you ever tell your investors that your market in Wellington was reduced due to your poor business
dealings in the Wellington community and the monies you owed?
A My market in Wellington was not -- that was not the case.
Q It was not the case that you had owed numerous barn owners and farriers and veterinarians money?
A What farriers do I own money to that don't still work on my horses? What veterinarians do I owe money
to that don't still work on my horses? The only barn person that's owned money is Debbie Cloudier, and now Shoshana Gordon.
Q And you left an outstanding bill at Victoria Farm, too, La Victoria --
A No, I --
Q -- back in the day?
A -- most certainly did not.
Q Okay. And Ms. Tuerk, you owe her money, correct?
A No, I do not.
Q You didn't -- you didn't satisfy the remainder of the bill with her?
A I didn't have a bill with her. The last month was paid up front. What do I owe her?
Q You can talk to her about that.
A Okay. I will. I might owe her $85 for a manure removal, but if -- that's it.
Q Please tell me all the people that you communicated with as it relates to selling Flemmingh and Silco for
A You go through --
Q Other than Jennifer Bieling.
A Mostly Jennifer Bieling.
Q Anyone else?
A She was primarily handling the sales.
Q Okay. Isn't it true that Jennifer Bieling told you in the beginning, when she reviewed these horses, that
they were overpriced?
A No. She absolutely did not. We had a very specific discussion about it, as a matter of fact, when it came
to Lendy Esau, who I had already priced the horses at 125. And I said, "Do you think that's a stretch?" and she said, "No."
Q And when in the conversation -- and when, as you had those horses, did that conversation take place?
A Oh. Right up -- right up front. Right in the beginning.
Q Did you tell Jennifer Bieling that all of the horses were owned by you?
A Yes, I did. Trying to protect my amateur status.
Q Once again, you didn't tell Jennifer Bieling, an agent that you were working with, that she was actually
selling these horses that were owned by somebody else?
A No. She did not know that.
Q Why didn't you tell her the truth about that?
A I was trying to protect my amateur status. We're limited on time here. Can we get past that part?
Q I -- I'm going until you tell me you want to walk out and then you face the consequences.
A Okay. You got me for like 15 more minutes.
Q Fine. Who else did you -- you were telling me about a customer from Orlando who Mr. Buck refused a thousand
-- $100,000 deal with. Who was that customer?
A Randy Newman was -- had customers coming into town and called and asked if we had anything that could be sold
for a hundred. And I said I'd have to make a phone call. And the end result was no, so they never even came.
Q Okay. So they hadn't looked at Flemmingh or anything about Flemmingh. It was more of a hypothetical, if you
have something for a hundred, we'll stop by and see it?
A No. I think I sent him a video clip online.
Q Okay. That's a video clip you no longer have, correct?
A Yes. I don't keep that stuff.
Q Okay. Anyone else that you communicated with as it relates to selling Flemmingh or Silco?
A I don't -- no, not to my knowledge.
Q Did you ever try to sell Flemmingh to Julie Russell in December of 2006?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q So if you attached a picture of Flemmingh and a spreadsheet, that would be incorrect?
A Probably -- no. If I attached a picture and a spreadsheet, I was probably trying to get Marc out of the
horse, like I told him I would.
Q And that's when the horse was lame and was having problems?
A No. He was sound at that point.
Q Okay. And that's at the time in December, when the virus was going on, and you-all said you couldn't ride
A Correct -- no, we could ride the horses. We weren't allowed to leave the property. And Julie Russell had to
walk through a thing of Clorox before she was allowed in the barn.
Q Who is Shane George, that's noted at page 6 of your business plan?
A Gentleman that I bought Tristan from.
Q Why would you state that he's not familiar with the local Wellington market?
A Because until two years ago, he didn't used to come here.
Q But your business plan was in April of '06, that was presented.
A Again, somebody else helped me write that. It's just -- it's for practical purposes.
Q But you didn't correct it.
A You're right. I didn't.
Q So you can understand how Mr. Buck might rely upon the business plan that was presented to him as being
accurate at the time that it was presented.
A No. I think that's hokey. I'm sorry. I think that's crap. I just --
A It's a -- it's a business plan model, and you can shoot holes in it all you want. I had somebody else help me
write it. It's not set in stone. You have to have a little common sense when you read those things.
Q You stated in the business plan that your company would be the only one offering show horses of this caliber
and quality. Do you feel that was an honest statement in 2006?
A Yes, I do, for the price ranges. There's a lot of horses that are priced at $150,000 that are not nearly
as nice as Flemmingh.
Q Okay. I'm not just talking about Flemmingh. I'm talking about all show horses you're going to offer.
A In general.
Q Okay. Your company opened in 1996. The plan was offered in 2006. So in that ten years, do you believe that
you developed a strong market share?
A Yes. I believe I've learned a tremendous amount over the last 10 years, especially now in the last six months.
Q Do you know what the term "the share of the market share" is? Do you know what that term is?
Q Okay. An advertisement -- you put in your business plan that there would be ads placed in horse-related
magazines. In the six months that you had Flemmingh and Silco, what magazines did you post them in?
A We didn't post anything because within six weeks the horse was lame.
Q So you didn't make any effort to post any advertisements --
A Didn't feel the need to. Jennifer Bieling had customers in and out of there like it was a revolving door.
There was no need to spend the extra money.
Q When is the last time you talked to Jennifer Bieling?
A January or -- when I got back from Europe. February.
Q And why are you no longer talking to Jennifer Bieling?
A I haven't even approached her since all this stuff started happening.
Q So you don't know how Jennifer Bieling feels about you right now?
A Oh, I'm sure it's probably not very good, as you've already stated.
Q I'm sure that she feels she got snookered by you telling her you owned all the horses, right?
A I feel sure she probably didn't like that. I did have a conversation with Ms. Bieling, though, asking
her what she would have thought if I didn't own the horses, when I started speaking to -- to another investor.
And she said she'd have no problem with me showing in the amateurs and helping me sell the horses.
Q Okay. So you think that Jennifer Bieling would have allowed you to violate the USEF rules?
A Absolutely. I asked her point-blank, direct question, her sitting in front of her barn.
Q Okay. What online advertisements did you post for Flemmingh or Silco?
A I didn't post anything online. Again, Jennifer had -- within two weeks of the horses arriving she had
customers there trying the horses, which is really fast.
Q Did you ever place a magazine ad for any horses that were in your investment string, from 2005 to the present?
A No. That would have been a new addition.
Q Did you ever place an interest -- an Internet ad for any horses in your string from 2005 to the present?
A I think I placed an ad for Bernie.
Q What partnerships had you established with businesses, such as vets, farriers and tack shops in Wellington,
that you put in your business plan?
A What do you mean? My farrier, he's worked for me since 2003.
Q And that would be Jeff Channell?
Q And you currently owe him about $5,900?
A No. Not even close.
A Matter of fact, I spoke to Jeff about that. And he said he didn't tell you that either.
Q Okay. And when --
A It's more like $2,900.
Q $2,900. So how long have you owed him $2,900?
A He did work for me in 2005 and the early part of 2006, up through my surgery and all. When I wasn't
working or making any money, he continued to shoe the horses for me. When -- once I had an investor, and the
horses were getting -- he was getting paid on a regular basis, plus a $500 commitment per month for my bill.
Q And you haven't --
A My past bill.
Q When is the last bill you've made to -- payment you made to him?
A The last time he shod the horses was New Year's Eve.
Q Did you ever tell your investors, in 2006, that you hadn't paid farriers or vets or tack shops in your
dealings in the past?
A No. Because most of those bills were not incurred by horses that I owned. Those were incurred by horses
that Jerry Stevenson owned, which is still an ongoing debate.
Q Which is still the horses that you put in your name to protect your amateur status?
A No. Those horse --
Q You --
A Those horses --
Q -- you actually incurred those bills --
Q -- correct?
A No. Not correct at all. I -- I had signed a contract with Mr. Stevenson that said I was responsible for
sweat equity only.
Q What management fee were you paid for on the horses from 2006 to the present?
A What do you mean?
Q Well, your business plan says that you're paid a management fee. What management --
A I did not pay myself a salary. Didn't have enough horses to justify that.
Q I'm trying -- why don't you explain to me how you were buying horses at retail prices from top professionals
and you believe you were going to actually increase their value by almost double in three months. How is that that
you were going to do that?
A I didn't think we were paying retail prices.
Q So you felt that the prices that these professionals were posting were substantially under value?
Q You have to answer audibly.
Q Did you look at a horse with Jason Berry named Tuscany?
Q And what was the price that Jason had quoted with -- you on Tuscany?
Q Okay. And you provided a spreadsheet to one of your potential investors where the horse's price was 75,000, correct?
A No, that's not correct.
Q That's not correct?
Q Okay. And if I prove to you and show you a e-mail where you sent out Tuscany with a picture of him with --
A I don't even have --
Q -- a woman holding --
A I don't even have a picture of Tuscany.
Q Okay. So you're saying that absolutely could not have happened?
A That absolutely could not have happened. I've never been provided with a photo of Tuscany. I have a little
online video clip, that's uploaded to YouTube, but I've never been provide -- I've never even seen the horse.
Q What does the horse look like? What's his -- what color is he?
A Supposed to be black.
Q Does he have any white on him?
A I don't know. You'll have to ask Jason. I'd have to go back and look at the YouTube video.
Q Well, didn't he send you some pictures on his cell phone?
A No. I've never received any photos of that horse.
Q So if you have Tuscany --
A I don't have a camera phone.
Q Okay. Well, if you have a picture -- my question is: If you have a picture of Tuscany in a spreadsheet
-- here let's --
A It's not Jason's horse.
Q Okay. Well, let's make sure, then. When is the last time you spoke to Jason?
A About three days ago, four days ago.
Q And what did that conversation consisted of?
A Various things.
Q Is that Tuscany?
A I don't -- no. This -- I've never been provided with a picture of Tuscany, from Jason.
Q What horse is this?
A I don't know.
Q So you put this on an investor -- a potential investor, but you don't know who it is?
A I didn't send that to anybody.
Q And you're sure of that.
A I know the horses that I sent out. That's not one of them.
Q Is that a horse you sent out to someone?
Q Okay. How about this one?
A Yep. Yep.
Q Okay. So if this horse --
A That's the only horse I don't recognize.
Q How about this one?
A I guarantee you, you can send that to Jason and he's going to tell you that's not his horse, because I've
never received a picture of his horse.
Q And how is he going to tell me that?
A These -- these pictures were taken off of a video camera. I don't -- because I don't know whose horse that is.
I didn't provide that to anybody. I've never received a photo of Tuscany.
Q Okay. And if Jason says this is Tuscany, then how would you have gotten it?
A I guarantee you he will not say that's Tuscany.
Q And why -- why is that?
A Because there's no way it's possible he sent me a picture of Tuscany.
Q Okay. Well, is that Jason's wife in the picture?
A I don't think so.
A I don't believe so.
Q What did you and Jason talk about when you spoke the other day?
A He told me about your phone call with him.
A We talked about Tuscany. Told him about a trip I was maybe planning to go to Europe.
Q And did he also tell you that he wasn't going to sell you a horse until you paid your prior bill at
-- at the vet's office?
A Nope. Didn't mention that at all.
Q Okay. When you made your arrangements or thought you made arrangements for Tuscany, as far as having him
vetted, did you tell the vet's office that you are now Heather Williams and that the horse was being vetted for
Q Did you tell them that? Okay.
A Who is Ronald Smith?
Q I don't know. I was going to ask you. Did you tell them that you owed them a prior bill?
Q So you were going to make arrangements to have another vetting done at another -- at the same place under a --
A Jason --
Q -- different name?
A -- actually made the arrangements.
Q Okay. So you never talked to them?
A No. I did talk to them. He provided me with a number.
Q And you gave them credit card information, correct?
A Yes. Which I have since closed that account.
Q Okay. But you didn't tell them, at the time you gave them credit card information, that you happened to
be the same Heather Hargett that owed them money from --
A I actually didn't know --
Q -- the year before?
A -- it was the same company.
Q Okay. Where in your business plan do you discuss that you receive commissions from your investors?
A I don't know if it's discussed at all. Again, somebody else helped me write that.
Q Palm Beach Equine, tell me -- Palm Beach Equine Clinic, have you satisfied your debt with them?
A Given the circumstances, I don't know that I owe any debt to them. That's Mr. Buck's bill.
Q Have you paid any money to Palm Beach Equine for services for Flemmingh or Silco?
A I wrote them a check for about $6,000. And throughout the midst of this mess, we need to sort that out,
who -- who that was allocated towards.
Q Well, you would agree that some of that portion would go to Silco for your portion of bill, correct?
A Correct. I fully expect to owe half of that bill.
Q And you had charges for Pebbles and Tristan, correct?
Q And you had Pebbles -- or Mr. and Mrs. Smith, which are also Pebbles and Tristan?
A Yes. Correct.
Q You also had Bernesto charges on there?
Q You also --
A Which Mr. King satisfied his bill.
Q And how about --
Q -- Travis?
A Yes. I don't know if Herb has satisfied his bill or not. It's something I need to find out.
Q Are you still talking to Herb King?
A No. Not until the things are resolved with Peter.
Q And I think we established earlier that the debt to Dr. Griffith has not been secured?
Q Are there any other vets out there that you owe money to, that you haven't paid yet, for prepurchase examinations?
A I don't think so, but I don't know. I think that covers them.
Q Can you -- why don't you name for me each and every horse that you've sold in the last five years for more
than $100,000, other than -- I think you told me Lexus last time, correct?
A That's probably the only one that I can think of off the top of my head. I don't -- I doubt I was involved
in any of the others.
Q Okay. I mean, you would think selling horses over $100,000 --
A I would remember. Exactly.
Q Pretty memorable, correct?
Q Okay. And why then did you believe that in 2006, with Mr. Buck, that you were going to take horses for
75,000 and turn around and sell them for over a hundred?
A Because we were getting into the quality. Before I had $25,000 horses. I wasn't going to sell those for
more than a hundred. There was no way. These were quality horses. There was no doubt. They're still isn't any doubt.
Q So you think Silco is a quality horse with a check ligament?
A Silco a very quality horse. I think he needs to be sold as a dressage horse now. Do you think I -- if I
had known about the check ligament, you think I'd have taken my commission money and bought half that horse with that?
No. I would have rather had the 35 grand.
Q You honestly think that Silco is worth, as a dressage horse, more than $25,000?
A Yeah. I -- do some research online. I -- I don't know a lot about it. That is not my field of expertise.
I would not claim that it is. But knowing the movements that he's capable of, yes. There's school horses that get
sold for $75,000, that do those movements.
Q But at the time that you had Silco, from August 6 to January 12, you never made any effort to go into the
dressage world to sell him, did you?
A Yes, we actually did. Jennifer Bieling bought -- brought a dressage customer to try him.
Q And that was the lady in the yellow Hummer that you don't --
Q -- know the name?
Q Okay. And she didn't buy him, correct?
Q And why didn't she buy him?
A Too big. That's an assumption. Let me clarify that. I'm assuming that. That was her only comment when she
was there and I never heard back from Jennifer as to why they didn't pursue it. So I'm assuming it was because he was
Q Are you still intending to do business with Jason Berry with Tuscany?
A We'll see what comes up.
Q All right. What have --
A It's a nice horse.
Q What have you done with Daniel and Cathy Gietner, as far as their horse is concerned?
A Still trying -- I still have somebody that's interested.
Q Okay. And have they told you that they will not sell you that horse?
A No, they have not.
Q When is the last time you talked to them?
A About a week ago. She sent me a fax number to fax her the contract.
Q Okay. And you're saying you have investors now that are going to be looking to buy horses?
A I have talked with people, yes.
Q Did any of the horses from Europe come in?
A Not yet.
Q And have you bought any horses from Europe?
A In the process of.
Q In the process of, meaning you've actually made paid payment and they're on their way or --
A We're --
Q -- you're still looking?
A No. We're organizing it.
Q What does that mean?
A We're organizing the payments now.
Q Okay. Are those outside investors or family investors?
Q Did you give your current investors, on their spreadsheet, a listing noting that they're going to pay
you a commission?
A Yes, I did. You've brought that to my attention. So, again, I'm learning as I go here.
Q Do you still have the copy of the written contract between you and Ashley?
A I -- I will look for it. I think that is with the attorney, Brian Eads, in -- in North Carolina. I've
requested all of those documents though.
Q Okay. You've not made any arrangements with Mr. Erdos, since the last deposition, to get him paid, correct?
A No. He stopped me on the side of the road, actually, not too long ago, and I told him I didn't have any money,
but when I did, I would let him know, and I'll be consulting my attorney about making payments of any such kind before I
do anything any -- any further.
Q And you don't have an attorney, as we sit here today, correct?
A Not for this case, no.
Q Okay. You have an attorney for other cases?
A Yes. I have somebody I consult with.
Q And the last deposition you told me that Herb King took his horse because of the Marc Buck lawsuit. But
that's really not true, is it?
A No, I think that's fairly true.
Q Okay. Well, they had already taken the horse from you before this lawsuit, correct?
A No. The horse was not taken until February 4th.
Q Well, the fact is you sold his son's horse back in November of 2006, failed to make payment, and wrote a
bad check, and he took the horse the next day.
A No. The -- the check had not -- the check had not even been written when he took his horse. The check was
written the day he took the horse or the day after.
Q Mr. --
A So you're incorrect.
Q Okay. And Herb King went around with you to different places to pick up vet bills and things like that?
Q Because he didn't --
Q -- trust that things were getting paid, did he?
A No. I don't think that he didn't trust. He was going to get all his paperwork organized.
Q Okay. Well, he gave you -- actually, you had to write a written contract to him at that time, correct?
Q For Peter King's horse.
Q Okay. Now, you told me in the last deposition that the reason why you didn't pay Peter King is because
the payment had to go to a corporation. You remember telling me that?
A Correct. Yes.
Q Then why did you write a check to Peter King, back in February, that was not honored?
A Truthfully, because I was backed in a corner. I should not have written the check to Peter King. It
should have always been written to Concord Investments. That was just -- it was an honest mistake.
Q Did you ever pay Rob Collucio his commissions from the sale of Bernesto?
A No. That'll be handled when the conclusion of the sale of the horse is handled.
Q When you say "the conclusion of the sale," I mean, isn't the sale been concluded? It was bought back
in November of '06.
A That part of it, yes. But Peter's not been paid. So if he -- when Peter gets paid, Rob can get paid.
Q And then Jennifer Bieling can get her commission, correct?
Q Did you bill Peter King for services to Bernesto in November, December and January?
A No, I did not.
Q When did your bills end to him?
A I sent him a bill for November, and he paid the whole bill. And then I credited him back, which is why
the check is an odd amount. Credited him back the part where once the horse got sold I did not -- I did not
continue to bill him.
Q Why did you sell his horse for 46,000 and write a check back for 85?
A Because when the horse came, I hated the horse. The horse was not nearly as nice. There was no comparison
to the horses that we bought for Marc. I tried to get the horse to -- I tried to get the horse to go back to where it
was coming from. They didn't want to take it back. I was -- I just -- I made a commitment that it was better business
to pay him money out of my own pocket, to guarantee he made money on the deal, than to get him in a deal that was upside
down. And so I sold the horse for every penny I felt like I could get out of it, as fast as I could, without him spending
too much more on it. That was just -- it was just a personal commitment I made and I will uphold.
Q Why -- did you honestly have $85,000 in your bank account at that time, on February 8th, when you wrote this check?
A Yeah. Not -- maybe not in my bank account, but I had access to it, yes.
Q Well, did -- was there arrangements put in your bank so there would be $85,000 when that check came through?
Q And did you borrow that money from family?
A No. It wasn't -- no, it wasn't borrowed. It's my money.
Q And where did you -- this is money you had in a different account?
Q What -- you bank at, what, Wachovia?
A No. Not any longer.
Q Okay. What bank do you bank at?
A I just opened a new account at SunTrust.
Q Okay. And is that under your -- Heather Hargett, Heather Williams or Griffon Gate?
A Griffon Gate.
Q And your Wachovia account --
A Closed it.
Q -- that you closed --
Q -- who was that under? Was it under Griffon Gate?
A Griffon Gate.
Q Heather Williams?
A Griffon Gate.
Q Okay. What other accounts do you have out there, or did you have out there?
A ost of -- I actually didn't keep a lot of money in the bank. I have a cooperative account, cooperative bank.
Q And where is that?
A North Carolina.
Q The truck and -- the truck that you currently own, is that -- is that something that you own your truck, or
is that the same leased truck, the whole Jerry Stevenson thing?
A No. That has nothing to do with Jerry Stevenson.
A But I -- I make payments on it.
Q Okay. And who -- who do you make payments through for that truck?
Q And how about for -- you have a horse trailer as well?
A No, I do not.
Q You do not own a horse trailer?
A No, I do not own a horse trailer.
Q Do you have a horse trailer that you use?
Q Okay. So if Ms. Tuerk told me that you had a horse trailer when you were stabled at her farm, what
happened to that horse trailer?
A It wasn't mine.
Q Whose was it?
A Andrew and Jenny's. Andrew Vaziri, Jenny Quick's. And Avery Demming parked her trailer there.
Q When is last time you talked to Andrew Vezerry?
A Two weeks ago.
THE WITNESS: And we're gonna -- we have to wrap this up. That was Olivia calling me, so I probably better go.
MS. NAVIN: MS. NAVIN: You want to touch base with her first or before --
THE WITNESS: I need -- I need to go give that horse a shot.
MS. NAVIN: Okay. All right. Well, what I will put on the record is, we are going to move for sanctions.
We're also going to move for a judgment on the pleadings because of the fact that we have prepared for the deposition
and this is court ordered with a videographer, special master in place. So we have a hearing next week. I believe
it's January 25th or so. You need to look --
THE WITNESS: April 25th, you mean?
MS. NAVIN: April. You need to look at your stuff. And I would encourage you to make sure that you show up there.
And I -- I'm just making sure you understand you're leaving with potential --
THE WITNESS: Yeah. I -- I --
MS. NAVIN: -- sanctions.
THE WITNESS: I don't -- I don't -- I don't feel like I have a choice. I'm sorry. It's like -- it's like being
a mother. His health is at risk.
MS. NAVIN: Okay.
NOTE: A few parts of the deposition were omitted due to possible conflicts with the ongoing Peter King lawsuit